The estbailshment-Taliban connection: What do ordinary, informed Pakistanis think?

What do ordinary Paksitanis think about the role of the establishment and Mullahs in jihadi and sectarian (terrorist) activities within and outside Pakistan? Some comments:

Various sources (pkpolitics, friendskorner etc):

Ghost of TK says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:22 am

@traffic: “war is not won by arms and weapons, but with power of iman.”

Exactly! Just as arguments are not won by brains or logic, but with sheer power of imbecilic idiocy and monumental self-delusion!

BTW, Aren’t you going to follow the orders of your one-eyed HOMO “ameer-ul-momineen” and wear a Jihadi-Jacket to the Eastern Front? Or is being a Drawingroom-Jihadi is the extent of your imaan? lecturing the rest of us on the “fawaa’id-e jihad”??

Maybe they’ll make a VHS tape of your “ghazva” and upload it on “” website.

Please! Do us all a favor! JUST DO IT!

Pejamistri says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 12:30 am

If Indians attack Taliban to fight alongside Army:Mahsud
The militant commander maintained that many a people might say the militants had been fighting the army since long, how it would be possible for them now to fight alongside them. “Therefore, I want to make it clear that …..

They killed our people and we killed their people and now we shall kill and get people killed together….
You know we are the war mongers


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:48 am

I wonder how is Pak Army gonna locate intruding indian armies when they can,t find 300 militants patroling the roads of Swat in broad day light, then pulling people out of their homes , then killing them in Chowks ……….

How are they gonna counter the indian radars when in the last five years they couldn’t locate Fazlullah’s FM radio station

or is there some jewish conspiracy in that ……………….. just a fu….g radio FM radio station ……………………

when will the day come when we will be able to avenge the losses we suffered from the hands of this Army’s sponsored Talibans ? ? ? ? ? ?


we_are_nuts Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:00 am

“You know we are the war mongers”

The dog belongs to the master! We cannot absolve the masters here. These guys are mere foot soldiers and they were specifically created for this purpose. I pray that their masters burn in hell. I think the ’strategic depth’ is going to end up being the middle of river indus and if not Shuja Pasha, then his son would be there….


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:06 am

justic4all I did not know Pakistan Airforce is after mad dogs now a days ? ? ? ? hmm so thats why they were flying LOW on the streets of islamabad and lahore today ………….. mad dogs ………..

Hell which world are you living ……. keeping in view their past records and their present occupations …… what are you expecting from them …………. its not invading parliament ….. its defending against an equally armed or more armed army …………… they are not used to these things ………….

Let’s pray this time india brings enough trucks to carry this whole lot of 1 million …………… last time they did not have enough space for the whole of them so they just took away 90,000 of them ……………….. and india will have cater for them this time as we are not gonna send any politician to negotiate their release …………

oh yes and when their masters are in indian trucks we will gift india with these talibans as Bonus …….. a new year gift …………….


pejamistri says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 1:21 am

Would that they could take only few hundreds of the officers (in fact they (bhindians) already have so much population. Remember in 1971 India was going to charge only 200 of Pakistan army officers with war crimes however the “politician” brought them back…

BTW apart from the World War II were most of PoW numbers were exaggerated , the highest number of the PoW in a modern war who surrendered in front of the enemy is 90,368 , this record is held by our proud forces , they have all the intentions to improve this record…


mibrahim Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:48 am


Can you solve a mathematic question for me.

For 90,000 soldiers to surrender, they required to kill 3 million peoples and to rape fourty thousand woman. How many killing an rapes will take place before one million soldier will surrende.


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:56 am

10 times …….. roughly ………… i dont think its strict mathematics though………… still …. i think the population of nwfp is about the same , u are right it has started ……… and its getting momentum ………………….


mibrahim Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 am


You got it exactly right i.e., it means whole population of a province. Sounds scary but probably not a big deal for these ALLAH KAY SHER.


FahadAfridi Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:44 am

Utmankhel1, good posts.

When taliban join hands again with their army buddies on the eastern border, it will be perfect time to kick both out of pakhtunkhwa. I bet we can get more aid directly from NATO by giving them targeting information on ISI/Taliban terrorist camps. Kill two birds with one stone.


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm

” they were related to indian threats but i dont know some of the people has some sickness they always bring debate of fight in tribal areas or swat ”


you definitely are senseless if you are reading news, it does not hurt you when the sick taliban + army are slaughtering people in Swat, and peshawar now ?
Why, do you think the blood across attock is cheap ? ? ? ? don’t you consider them humans ? ? ?

do you know anybody from swat, just ask him, the militants are picking people from their homes in front of army ……… to throw them beheaded after a few days …………….. are you sick ? ? ?

Fazlullah’s FM radio station has been spreading the hate (and fear now) for the last five years till this very hour, but this army can’t block it, forget about locating fazlullah through the radio station. are you sick ? ? ?


FahadAfridi Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 pm

ISI/Army/Taliban are one and the same. It is in the interest of pakhtuns that these 3 evil forces and murdered be defeated. Does not matter who helps us accomplish this.

Getting aid directly from NATO is million times better than waiting for table scraps from generals. Why be a slave of a slave, when we can directly talk to the master?

Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm


In 1971 there were people like you who were saying its propaganda only. In 2008 you are saying its propaganda only. The problem is that in know the facts, so do you.

What do you expect from somebody who is from Swat, Waziristan, Bajaur or Mohmand who knows Army is doing everything. Army is killing people, providing them with pasaages immmediately before start of shelling and in the case of Swat meeting with Fazlullah regularly. All this info is from different sources. Will you bother to authenticate this propaganda ? ? ?

Army/ISI is providing passages to taliban before start of any activity…it was narrated to me by a friend who lives there. It happened in Barra, very close to Peshawar, though its happening everwhere.

But its one of those stories that i have heared. Try to hear from someone who belongs to Swat.

who says those being killed in our tribal areas are innocent. Who said they were inncocents, according to media reports they belonged to Punjab and were travelling in Vehicles laden with heavy arms. What were militants from Punjab doing in Waziristan ? ? ? ? ?


Ghost Of TK Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:36 pm

I wish someone would do a reportage on the FATA situation .. there is a lot of confusion about what’s happening in Swat and other areas.

One day Military is fighting the taliban, the next day they’re homosexual lovers and will fight together against the indians



Utmankhel1 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm


come on, the one of Samiullah, where is the confusion ?

Wasn’t he fighting them for some time before he fell, while our army was watching, try to imagine what must have been an alternative interpretation to that.

When he was digged out from his grave and his dead body hanged in a chowk, try to imagine where our army must have been at that time

the whole body hanged there till evening and then they returned to bring the body down, now imagine again and try to find an answer as to what the army was doing that whole day ? ? ?

why not accept the reality ? ? ?

Which newspaper has a different story on this thing ? a single newspaper …………. i m not quoting cnn …..

you are pushing the people of that area to the wall.

tomorrow when a third force will offer assitance to the people of the area, what do you think will be their reponse ?

Tell you what, there was once an operation in Barra, against Mangal Bagh. While the operation continued for a few days, i was searching for some good news about capture of Mangal Bagh, and what i found, you know, there was a statement from Mangal Bagh that i myself am busy in an operation in Kuram Agency against some other militant group ! ! ! ! !

Yes there were operations in Barra, and so far as i remember the Kohat tunnel was captured by some militants for some time but then was released without any casualty.

there is a task for you. try to find someone from Swat, Mingora or Matta and ask him whats happening ? ? ? ?

or else look in newspapers of the past prvious months, you will see pics of taliban beating people in public in broad day light, and then try to understand as to how is it possible. when you reach at some conclusion then come here and guide us.

taliban are good when they are ruling others, they are bad when they are ruling you …………


Ghost of TK says:

December 24th, 2008 at 1:28 am

The trouble with Pakistani’s is that they don’t know sh!t but they like to play charades. I would say, if someone has citizen journalism of the area, then tell us what is happening.

Although I find the happenings there bizzarre. @uthmankel is right. Why is it that the taliban are able to congregate in areas where operation is happening, slaughter and behead people and the army is nowhere to be found…


And as soon as india says they’ll attack, Army and Taliban are together. And some genius in ISPR announces that Taliban are “patriots” and that the differences are “minimal” ????? WTF???

Does ANY FUCKWIT DUMB FUCK in ISPR (I’m sure who you are and are probably reading this) FUCKING REALIZE HOW THIS LOOKS AS A TICKER ON CNN??






digitalmaster Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 1:31 am


do differential between the “original” Talibans and “wanna be RAW and MOSSAD funded” talibans we have in Pakistan under the leadership of Baitullah Masud. The ground reality is more complex than a “Hawai fire” type statement…. “All Taliban are bad”… Anybody can come up any time.. make a small militia and brand themselves as Taliban…

my 2 cents

personally think (or maybe I want to believe) that Army is not actually fighting against the original Talibans but instead are trying to decieve the Nato forces ( Hence the recent voices of ” Do More” ).

This has been reported more than once that Army has provided info about Baitullah masud more than once to Nato forces. NATO has refused to take any action against his faction which raises the question … “are they on a payroll to “foreign forces” ? … and the answer is Yes. It explains why He has survives for so long and gets so much media attention. He is one of many scapegoats for justification of drone attacks.

My house of cards about army and patriotism came crashing down after “Lal Mosque” incident. On one side I have no hope or expectation from them. But on other hand if they don’t defend the country who will….
Things are never Black and White….


mibrahim Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 1:52 am

those who say that: “Taliban are killing spy’s might be Indian or American spys, they are beating or killing people as a punishment for their wrong doing”.

They are not killing american or indian spys. They are destroying schools, they are destroying institution. They are using the name of Allah and Islam for their evil and inhuman deeds, thus bringing bed name for us. BTW who the hell are they to decide whats the ‘wrong doing’is and to punish people.


Ghost Of TK Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 2:21 am

@digitalmaster: well I wonder about that Mehsud guy too. If he is indeed in the pay of RAW, why does the army high command then says… “Mehsud and Fazlullah are patriots”

I don’t get it… some weird shit is going on over there


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 2:40 am

digital master,

71s happen when lies are told.

America has so far killed a number of high profile militants inside pakistan, that too being a western country and having comparatively less human intelligence, but tell us how many of the high profile militants have been killed by our army, despite having support of the locals, infrastructure and a comprehensive human intelligence sytem ?

a few months back Pak Army was given the exact location of Fazlullah and they did not act. They even did not deny the claim that they had intelligence of the bastard given by the provincial govt.

if you follow my posts i am focusing on Swat which i have know are criminals but our army is still in love with them.

There is a time when you are analysing the situation as to who is doing what, but then there comes a time when you have made a decision and only wait for a proper time to act.

All the drama started and we kept watching. It was far away in Waziristan and so we did not know much.Then it came close. Now its in every town/village of Pukhtunkhwa and we have had enough time to know who is doing what.

If you read my previous posts you would understand how much the people now know about this toopy drama of army/ISI. I know who is governing and how, so don’t make me repeat all what i have written already.

ISI, JI, ARMY, HAMID GUL, ZAID HAMID, QAZI, IMRAN KHAN, we know who was created when and who takes orders from where and who licks the boots where……… we hope they mend their ways and spare the common man.

Also according to your estimate whats the total number of militants in Swat and tribal areas and how many of them are foreigners ?


Jamshed Khan Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

We all know that Paki Army Generals are ruling Pakistan and that they have turned Pakistan into their previliged colony. One Captain raped a doctor in Baluchistan and instead of punishing that crook captain, the whole Baluchistan is burning. Mush played a double game with USA and so is the Army doing for the last 40 years.
1-MQM was created by ISI-Army to divide Sindh and eliminate JM Syed.
2- To keep away ANP from Power ISI and Army kept rigging elections for JI and PML. MMA was created by ISI and so were Talibans.
These Talibans are supported by ISI and Army and the even ANP MNAs and MPAs are slaughtered in braod day light.
Fuck this Napak Army. I hope India will punish these Basters.
Why are they burning schools….now even in peshawar…..
I pray to GOD INDIA attack Pakistan and crush this Napak Fauja….


Jamshed Khan Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 3:22 am

Benazir Bhutto was toppled by ISI. ISI created Islami Jamahori Ittihad. And who was Naseerullah Babar, he was a fucking Paki General. These Generals will sell their mother for Dollars. Zardari and company are just puppits. The Army rules the country and fucking ISI. Remember ist not Pakistan, it s Punjabistan….

In this land of Pure, only Munafiqs are surviving. If you are a liar and corrupt and wipes Generals Ass, you are patriotic. If you tell the truth and demands justic and wants equal rights and point to WRONGS, then you are a TRAITOR.

MQM, Talibans, Jamiati Islami and JUI are all ISI payeee. Napak fauj and fricking Generals has made Pakistan a Prostitute.
Thse basters are burning Baluchistan and NWFP, for no reason. Paki Army Generals are PIGSSSSSSSSSS


FahadAfridi Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 3:46 am

Once again Zia’s children bring in the fantasy of “good” taliban and “bad” taliban. What a pathetic and sorry excuse for the crimes of ISI against humanity.

And nice diversion by trying to play with the egos of pakhtuns. It is because we have been called “warriors of islam” that we are kept away from education and made to live in poverty and jahilat by the state of pakistan so we can be be the “strategic dept” for punjab’s fight with it’s fellow hindustanis. How islam is abused in order to fool simple minded pakhtuns even today to support pakistan. And generals and their supporters have no shame at all. First let your “good” taliban rule over lahore before forcing their brutal ways on innocent pukhtuns.


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 3:47 am


Please go do some research and then come back and write here. Are you kidding ? Don’t you know Nek Mohammad, Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah, Muslim Khan ? ? ? they are known to everybody ….. still have doubts ? visit GHQ then, you may have a chance to meet them there as well.


Ugly Bacha Khan may not become Ugly Najeeb ………… He has been representing the largest political party of the province and by calling him ugly u are supporting the view ……….. the blood across attock is cheap ……….. keep it up …………. in reply you well deserve a long lecture on your history of thousand years but obviously one cannot bite a d.g if bitten by one ..


Fighting is the duty of army not civilians whether from tribal areas or your punjab.
What the fu..k is the army for ? ? ? ? ?
The lives of tribals is at the same state as was in 47, whereas the majority province is undergoing continuous development. Are they your slaves ? ? ? ? ? keep them alive in stone age and call them to your fu..g wars of strategic depths when needed.
The tribals need education and development and not your sugar coated vemonous recognitions of their strong characters. Generations after generations they will be serving you ….. what do you think are you ? ? ?

Are you serious in considering Imran Khan a leader worth mentioning here ? ?


shandana Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 3:37 am

When we use the term TALIBAN we think that they are group of unanimous people which is not right of course. There are many groups who are fighting for different masters.

Before the famous U-turn of musharraf there were just talibans who were supported by Pak army as well as ISI of course. When musharraf got enlightened by the direct ‘vahee’ from USA via Colin Powell, he decided to disown taliban. Here comes the twist……The army part in general and the civilian part of ISI in paticular were not ready for that. Also there were (even now) some conflicts between ISI and IB. Musharraf also tried to downsize the power of ISI and gave more power to IB. Many officers had sympathies with taliban so they encouraged the local tribal people to resist the army actions against taliban. Those people are called pakistani taliban. Another group got supported by IB and called panjabi taliban(I am not sure about this though). In the meanwhile northern alliance along with Iran and Indian support, Ihl-e-hadees with Saudi support and many more groups got influences. They get mony from their supporters and fight each other. Each group use the name of Taliban. In swat most of the talibans( so-called) have the support from India(Those who burn school etc). Pir Samiullah was from Barailvy group belongs to panjabi taliban. When some of the houses of taliban comanders (in Swat) were raided by army, they found lingeries there(imagine poor people of swat and backward taliban).

Also local people of swat discovered that many of these taliban were not even muslim.

Keeping all this in mind I think that all the world players are fighting their war here and pashtuns being used as (I don’t want to say it but this is true) condoms.


FahadAfridi Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 3:42 am

The entire world knows that pakistan is playing a double game by having one taliban in their pocket and occasionally fighting against others for show and tell. All at that the expense of lives of pashtuns. On both sides, taliban, FC and army, pashtuns are involved and dieing. Yet, the leaders of taliban are free to do as they please due to blessing of ISI. In Quetta, taliban commanders live and run the war freely. In sawat, we already know what is going on.

These are not secrets or mysteries. It’s not hard to realize that pashtuns are the favorite cannon fodder for punjab based army leadership. I don’t care if it’s for greed or pan-islamist wet dreams, but the end result is that our people are slaves in pakistan. For pashtuns, it is simple logic that being slaves of NATO is a better alternative as they can actually provide us money for development and confronting taliban devils. Whatever respect I had for the pakistani state was lost when it sat on the sidelines while hundreds of pashtuns were slaughtered and beheaded by their pet jihadi dogs.

If you guys love jihad so much, have your ISI fight it in lahore. Leave us alone.

And also gen ayub was a hindkowan, yahya was a farsiwan. It doesn’t matter though.


amshed Khan Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 4:42 am

The whole world knows Talibans are created and harbored by ISI. Imagin a 600,0000 strong army with Nuclear weapon and COMMANDOS could not capture 400 Talibans who are slaughtering innocent people in broad day light and burning schools with free hand.
Of course they are on ISI Payroll and of course the corrupt Paki establishment wants so…
Stupid Pathans…Relighous PIGS…


?? Says:
December 22nd, 2008 at 5:56 pm

The world is really afraid of Pakistan army’s nuclear blackmail , they(army) have successfully used the nuclear black mail twice once during the Kargil war when they made the moves to use the nuke in Kashmir and then in 2000 when they planned to nuke Sind in case Indian forces cross Sind borders..
Pakistan army desperately wants to make amends with Mullahs , after the Lal Masjid fiasco mullahs and army got into real fight and Mullahs were able to hit army several times , the dilemma for the Pakistan army is to keep US away , as I said before the elections that they are ready to accept some levels of survival (including letting go the government in Pakistan, sharing the booty with civilians) however they won’t commit suicide. Therefore important thing to is to keep US away while getting into bed with Mullahs again… The nuclear blackmail to India they consider as the best option to keep US away from Pakistan territory…. the relevant point however is that whether Mullahs can be moved aways from the Afghanistan back into Kashmir.
Mumbai massacre was sort of a rendezvous of two estranged lovers meeting again at a familiar place. It has already washed away a lot of misgivings between Mullahs and Army , one can see this even at pkpolitics. But matters are very complicated in Afghanistan and FATA, Mullahs have much more misgivings touching the levels of hatred against the army. And reading the “story of General Alvi” it seems that there is a “strong” group in army who wants to settle the question of Mullahs too…

On the other hand, the other relevant question is , Will India give in yet again to the nuclear blackmail?? It seems so. There is no doubt the solution to the problem of Pakistan lies within Pakistan , it is only people of Pakistan who can correct this , the world can only help people of Pakistan.

Isn’t it amazing that the people who claim that Pakistan Army used chemical weapons (phosphorous bombs) against the innocent little babes of Jamia Hafza and burned them alive , have doubts about nuclear blackmail by the same army and that too against their arch-rival.

Isn’t it also amazing that the people who claim that Pakistan army is killing their own people in Swat , Waziristan and all the rest of FATA have doubts about Pakistan army blackmailing the world with their nuclear arsenal…

Let me put couple of questions
Why would army use the chemical weapons against the Lal Masjid girls??
Why would army kill kids, old men , civilian etc. in Waziristan??

Any answers???

That’s why I call these people hypocrites who think they are more patriotic than others , at least ahmedquraishis of this world don’t criticize thier “own” army… 🙂


gditpp Says:
December 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 pm

This is a clash between the followers of Jinnah and the followers of Zia. The deep seated ideological faultlines are on a move again. The tectonic plates are inching slowly but surely towards a collision. It is a mutually in-coexistable situation. It is a difference of world views. On the one hand are those who believe in evolutionary democracy and federalism and uphold constitutionalism, they are inherently anti establishment (read anti GHQ), anti mulla and are progressives, I call them Jinnahists. Oppossing them are Ziaists, the intolerent, bloodthirsty, obscurantist mullah and their godfather Generals who spread hatred and intolerence in the name of Islam and shamelessly equate their personal and institutional interests with national security.


FahadAfridi Says:
December 22nd, 2008 at 9:29 pm

Traffic, is it pakistan army’s nuclear doctrine to attack any invading force inside Pakistan and as part of this strategy they will let indians come into sindh and nuke them.

The advantage in the eyes of jihadi generals is 1) they can use nukes without the same level of backlash as using nukes inside india 2) sindh gets radiated.

This is well known. For jihadi generals, pakistan’s survival is not important, killing the enemy is


FahadAfridi Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:19 am

Pakistan’s nuclear doctrine. Notice no. 3?

Pakistan’s Nuclear Doctrine would therefore essentially revolve around the first-strike option. In other words, the Pakistani government will use nuclear weapons if attacked by India even if the attack is with conventional weapons. With his experience of a graduated nuclear response, Professor Stephen P. Cohen feels that Pakistan would use what he calls an ‘option-enhancing policy’. This would entail a stage-by-stage approach in which the nuclear threat is increased at each step to deter India from attacking. These stages are as follows:

1. A public or private warning.
2. demonstration explosion of a small nuclear weapon on Pakistani soil.
3. The use of (a) nuclear weapon(s) on Pakistani soil against Indian attacking forces.
4. The use of (a) nuclear weapon(s) against critical but purely military targets on Indian soil, probably in thinly populated areas in the desert or semi-desert, causing the least collateral damage.


pejamistri Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:41 am

3. The use of (a) nuclear weapon(s) on Pakistani soil against Indian attacking forces. … wow so it is part of the doctrine, by the way Punjab borders are densely populated and the army is very compassionate with its own people therefore the use of nuclear weapons against the Indian attacking forces in Punjab will not be possible on the other hand Kashmir border is hilly terrain and Indian forces will be scattered over a large area in a small population.
Hence the best use of nuclear arsenal will be deserts of Sind where there is “some” (the remaining) population of “pee drinking” hindus, and the rest of the population does not look like muslims and Pakistani…

And I remember the “verbal diarrhea” guy giving the best proof of hindus involvement in Mumbai attacks said “Look at his (Kassab’s) face , he doesn’t look like Pakistani” ….


kafka8 Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:02 am


perhaps you are confusing valid anti-faujistanic sentiments with cold military war strategies based on possible enemy strategic plans to cut off sind/karachi from punjabistan/pakistan?? i may be wrong…

pejamistri Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:10 am

You have been asking this question several times how to differentiate between a “good military” and “faujinatanic forces” , it is exactly like differentiating between “good taliban” and “bad taliban” , you know how one defines “good taliban” and “bad taliban” , “bad taliban” are those which kill “you” and “good taliban” are those which kill “others”.
It sounds very “patriotic” that the “proud” army of Pakistan fighting against the “arch-enemy” and as they say “p.. drinking” hindus… However this is not true.. I’ll come back to this later…
There is another interesting aspect of this “false patriotism” , on the one hand this army is a “satanic force” , savage , barbaric and cold blooded murderers (remember Faraz’s poem “peshawar qatiloon tum sipahi nahi”), so this army burns alive “innocent girls” , bombards innocent kids in waziristan , and kills Nawab Akbar Bugti , rapes “Shazia Khalid” , abducts missing persons and commits every single crime on the earth. But the same army is transformed into “mujahid aided by the angels” against the “pee drinking” hindus , and they will themselves be angels and will fight with hindus in order to “defend” the same country against whose population they have committed all those crimes listed above. I will talk this myth too..

Third very important aspect to this “false patriotism” is that when talking about the atrocities of Pakistan Army against their own people , most of the liberals would argue that these atrocities are committed for three major reasons.

1. In order to save their rule (like Yahya , Zia and Musharraf did).
2. In order to get more money (like Zia and Musharraf did)
3. In order to keep “bloody civilians” fearful of the army (like the show of power in Balochistan , Lal Masjid etc..)

Now the army that can kill people for the sake of money , the army that can rape women for the sake of rule , the army that can burn kids/girls for the sake of instilling their fear in the hearts of people , What is wrong if the same army plan to use nukes in order to save itself from extinction….

Fourth as somebody mentioned that their may be few black sheep and we can not condemn the whole institution for this.. so few black sheep kill people , burn people , rape women and bomb villages and the “white” sheep keep quiet….

Finally your “cold military war strategies” nuking your own people did not even enter Hitler’s or Nepolean’s mind , by the way you can very well imagine why Nawaz Sharif , the “right wing” leader was so aggressive against the hiding of Kassab’s family because he know at what limits this army can reach…

So where does it end??? Do we remain under the clutches of this army forever? I believe NO , the stories like “Alvi” are coming out , the bond between Mullah and Military is slowly cracking , the politicians are in better position to deal with army than their predecessors. Slowly but surely things are changing… it may take time perhaps another generation.

Is their a quick solution , US/India getting rid of this army and giving people of Pakistan a clean country to run with democratic principles , the answer is NO , Iraq , Afghanistan is a stark example of this policy failure… they can only help us by supporting the civilian rule, remember this is in their benefit as well.


pejamistri says:

December 23rd, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Let me quote Dosteovsky for you

People talk sometimes of bestial cruelty, but that’s a great injustice and insult to the beasts; a beast can never be so cruel as a man, so artistically cruel. The tiger only tears and gnaws, that’s all he can do. He would never think of nailing people by the ears, even if he were able to do it.

These Turks took a pleasure in torturing children, -too; cutting the unborn child from the mothers womb, and tossing babies up in the air and catching them on the points of their bayonets before their mothers’ eyes. Doing it before the mothers’ eyes was what gave zest to the amusement.

Do you see anything common in digging the grave and taking out the corpse and p!$$!ng on it and thinking of a “cold military war strategies” to nuke any part of the world… By the way it is only the military of Pakistan who can think of such a “military war strategy” , artistic isn’t it??


Watch Live with Talat on 23 Dec 2008 (FriendsKorner)

Talat Hussein discusses the alarming situation of Peshawar and advancement of Talibans with Hashim Babar and Senator Maulana Rahat Hussain.


sanginkhan Says:
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:22 pm

The real problem is the lack of civilian control of military in Pakistan. Military support for terrorism in Pakistan will ultimtely torn it apart with horrible human cost.

ANP will have a different line of thinking and one can differ with them but their argument on this situation is a living reality; if one doesnt bury his head in sand.

Military might use these tactics of supporting Taliban and burning schools to dislodge them from provincial government but its blowback will be horrible for both military and Pakistan. Its pretty the same sitution of 1971 when elected party was denied the right to rule. But more dangerous aspect of ANP situation is that they are not only denied thier right to rule but also their very ideological foundation of brining peace and stability to their region is challanged by imposing Taliban proxies to fight agaisnt Afghanistan. And this will definetely led them to hit back on Pakistan military.

Some reliable sources are of the view that the Peshawar incident of bombing the school was in reaction to the Provincial government Cabinet meeting a day before in which gave signgs of mistrust on military role in swat operation and our intelligence agencies staged it to pressurise bring them to line.


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 1:12 am

Here it is,

Thats what we did not want, and thats what the ANP avoided from saying for about 10 months.
Although the people of that province expected them to speak the truth much earlier.

So now let’s see what they make of ANP, hope we dont have see a repetition of 71.

will you enlist the deals that the provincial govt of nwfp made with these militants ?

the problem is not with bajaur, swat or waziristan, its with GHQ ……


FahadAfridi Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 3:55 am

^All thanks to beghairat ISI/Army/Taliban nexus. I tell you I will throw a party the day someone bombs ISI HQ.


Kashif Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 4:38 am

Pakistan did not have a choice to stay neautral in this war from day 1. After 911 Bush administration made sure Pak Army is on-board. Mushraaf took the right decision. I am sure anyone would have done same. One can argue then it wasn’t our war but now I don’t understand how anyone can say its not our war.

pakistan is a battle ground, our Army is actively involved our civilians are in the line of fire. All social sector related issues that we used to talk about health, education, employment, corruption etc are on the back burner.

No body including US or Pak military denies that we need to negotiate. But you can talk to anyone who wants status quo upside down. We need to engage moderate elemements who are ready to work within framework. Those who want to launch against us and west alike needs to be dealt with force.


ksjadoon Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 6:31 am

There’s no way to justify killing of innocent people in FATA, Malakand or anywhere else, whether in the name of anti-terrorism or Islam. This massacre by Pak Army, US drones and by so called Taliban is equally hateful. Secondly, destroying of schools, colleges and other institutions is another way to deprive Pukhtoons from education.

Some very good points by Hashim Babar about foreign policy, defense policy, provincial autonomy etc. Though this guy was a crook but he presented real sentiments of the people. If someone kills your innocent brothers/sisters would you care about someone’s else beloved ones? NO.

Please STOP killing of our own loved ones.


sashah Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

I bet Hashim babar is not a Pashtoon. what

option he seeks outside Pakistan. To have

alliance with Afghanistan, India, or

America… My God these bulshits wants this country like Afghanistan

Utmankhel1 Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 8:06 pm


He most definitely is pashtoon as he considers them humans and cares for them. By saying what he said today, he has risked his life and everything for the pashtoon nation. Now he ows respect from Pashtoons.

The people of NWFP thought ANP had let them down by remaining mum on the atrocities of ISI backed islamists, but last nights programme has changed that perception. Now if he is done any harm, the pashtoons will know where to respond.


FahadAfridi Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

Hashim lala should be careful lest Taliban/ISI agents kill him. We need more people like him.

Utmankhel1 Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 3:55 am

Fahad Afridi,

He’s done his duty, now its the duty of the common people to gather courage and speak about this drama openly. We need to identify the enemies in between as well, the first one being Qazi and then every other who visits the province with the agenda of ISI like Imran Khan, Hameed Gul, and all the Generals ….


FahadAfridi Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 4:20 am

I agree, if karachi can ban entry of imran khan fake “pathan”, we should also ban entry of ISI agents and B team of army in pakhtunkhwa.


Utmankhel1 Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Fahad Afridi,

Do you know how Imran entered into politics ? Somebody told me he was brought into politics by none other than Hameed Ghul …… need some research …

Related articles:

Liberal Fascism versus Religious Fascism: An interesting conversation

Imran Khan is a Liberal just like Quaid-e-Azam M.A.Jinnah !! : An Interesting Debate on PTI’s Blog

A discussion: Why Imran Khan Has Failed To Lead The Nation ??

Talibanisation of Pakistan

Some myths versus facts about fundamentalism in Pakistan – Rubina Saigol

One response to “The estbailshment-Taliban connection: What do ordinary, informed Pakistanis think?”

  1. They (ISI bigwigs) thought their guys (Taliban, Jihadis etc) will help them in the Jihad of Kashmir. From strategic depth in Afghanistan to jihad-e-kashmir in Kashmir, fools’ paradise is quite extensive.

    Spreading terror
    Dawn Editorial
    Friday, 08 Jan, 2010

    Army soldiers carry their injured comrade from an ambulance to a hospital after the suicide bomb blast some 80 kilometers from Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir on January 6, 2010. – Photo by AFP.

    For the most part, Azad Jammu and Kashmir managed to escape the violence that has engulfed Pakistan in recent years. But the last six months or so have seen a spike in terrorist activity, the most recent being Wednesday’s deadly suicide attack outside a military barracks in Tararkhel.

    Security forces in AJK were earlier targeted by a suicide bomber in June last year, an incident that claimed the lives of two soldiers. Then, in November, three men blew themselves up after they were besieged by police and area residents in Muzaffarabad. Luckily, the only casualties were those suffered by the terrorists. About a month later, a suicide bomber killed at least seven mourners participating in a Muharram procession in Muzaffarabad. Wednesday’s bombing was reportedly the first such attack outside the AJK capital.

    Clearly, the tentacles of terror are spreading. When the Taliban and their affiliates first turned against Pakistan, their sphere of operations was limited mostly to the NWFP and Fata. But their reach grew under a government that was ostensibly fighting militancy and at the same time cutting peace deals from a position of weakness. The so-called Punjabi Taliban started making their presence felt and various extremist outfits across the country also closed ranks with the tribal militants. The state capital was attacked, as were several towns and cities in the NWFP, Punjab and the tribal belt. But the worst was still to come in the wake of the concerted military offensive launched last year.

    Finding themselves on the run for once, they lashed out with attacks on soft targets as well as security installations. Hundreds of civilians were killed by bomb blasts. Peshawar was hit repeatedly. The terror spread to southern Punjab and last month several Ashura mourners died in a blast in Karachi. The attack has yet to be linked to a specific group. It is clear that extremist elements want to so terrorise the nation that public support for the military operation wanes. That hasn’t happened so far — indeed the opposite has occurred. It is now incumbent on all sections of society to ensure that the battle against militancy is taken to its logical conclusion.