Is Islam the problem behind the issues concerning Pakistan? – by Raman Seghal
Yes. How and Why – I discuss it below :
The main reason of Human civilization evolving to its present form is the ability of humans to question. This questioning gives rise to reasoning which leads to formation of ideas. We all are surrounded by thousands of ideas which were conceived and subsequently developed by millions of humans. Everything that is around us (excluding nature) started off as an idea in somebody’s mind.
Religion too is an idea concocted by man.
History :
All religions had tremendous sway on people’s mind and all thrived as they forbade questioning of the belief system. Abrahamic religions viz Christianity, Judaism and Islam were more intolerant, as central to these beliefs was one god and singular philosophy. Source of this intolerance were the books which were supposed to originate from god – who cannot be questioned. Anyone with different idea or questioning mind was punished with blaspheme and killed.
Christianity had its evil period of inquisition where thousands were killed for blaspheme. It was the reformation age that saw reformers ask the question of supremacy of Pope and take Christianity back to the ideals of Christ. This fight against the conservatives saw questioning being permitted in the society and hence leading to separation of state and religion leading to industrial age and modernity and subsequent progress of human race. Christianity is now reformed to such an extent that only image that is projected is of Christ as a loving and self sacrificing man. Bible is forgotten and rarely quoted. Religion is totally into the backstage so much so that only few percentage of Western population visit churches and large percentage have become atheist. Progress is for everyone to see.
Dharmic religions viz Hinduism, Budhism, Jainism were comparative tolerant as there were multiple gods thereby having divergent philosophy so people developed tolerance to each other. Here also evil practices were followed like untouchability, sati, caste system, suppression of women, etc. The source of all this evil were religious books which were again not to be questioned and the only ones able to read the books were those who were enjoying the fruits of the system. It were the British who introduced education to Hindu elite who in turn saw the progress made by Europeans and started questioning their own system. This lead to reformation in Hindu religion where all superstitions and evil practices were questioned and slowly eliminated. These reformers again looked at the original source of their religion and eliminated subsequent evil practices. The last nail in coffin was dug by Nehru when he introduced Hindu Code Bill thereby ending centuries of discrimination and evil practices and ushering in a path towards modernity. The fruits that we see today are direct result of these reformers. There are still miles to go till we reach any where near the progress already achieved by west.
Now to Islam :
Being the last of the Abrahamic religions – it was formed while wars / battles were being waged. So the most of the verses especially the Medinan ones are violent and intolerant especially towards non-muslims. The tolerant verses are mostly of Meccan period. Nonetheless, it was a new philosophy that instilled fire among people and led to the conquering of most of the civilized world both politically and religiously. As long as there was something to conquer Islam had its golden period but the trouble started when there was nothing much left to conquer or they were not able to do so. Religious tenets were followed strictly and questioning on religion was prohibited. So no new idea could be generated and society started decaying. The mighty Islamic rule crumbled under the might of colonization which later resulted in its fragmentation and disorientation. There was an attempt by Islamic followers to reform Islam ie to go back to its basic Islamic tenets and this was the start of Wahabi movement which can be summarized as us against others.
There were other reformers who wanted to take Islam away from its intolerant ways – but unfortunately they were killed – this resulted in spread of fear so much so that honest open debate in Islam is almost impossible till today. Since Islamic tenets could not be questioned and mohammed and his actions are above scrutiny so there was no possibility of any change. The laws and beliefs to be followed remained of the 7th centaury. Children are brainwashed from early age into believing the presence of god and fear in instilled to desist them from questioning Islam and mohammed. This is common all across Islamic world.
Islam in world :
There are 57 Islamic countries and all except 3 are intolerant and failures. The 3 moderate ones are Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia. Turkey is success because its founder deliberately kept it away from islam so much so that even hijab was banned and its script was changed. Malaysia is success due to its 40% non-muslim population who control almost 80% of its economy – it is a country where majority muslims are given reservations (normally it is the opposite). Indonesia is liberal as it stayed closer to its roots and they developed their own version of Islam away from Wahabi cult – but sip is showing as real islam is being indoctrinated.
Other successful countries like Qatar, Kuwait, UAE are due to their oil wealth and US support. The misery is that complete GDP of all Arabic States minus the oil revenue is less that the GDP of Finland. Why is this so? Simply, because people do not question or reason because Islam prohibits reasoning – Koran is final and there cannot be anything new and better – so why think.
Islam has trouble will all “others”.
Muslims have trouble with Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Chinese, Russians, Philliphinos, Thais, Burmese, Sri Lankans (though less), Africans, almost everywhere they are in conflict – it cannot be that muslims are all bad or “others” are all intolerant – there can only be one reasonable explanation – there is something wrong with the Islamic philosophy.
To the Sub-continent :
Ideally Pakistan should have been a progressive state with very fertile land, great natural resources, cohesive population of one religion and beliefs and a friend like US (being the most advanced country in world – other nations like Japan, Korea, Europe, SE Asia, etc benefited tremendously from being close to US) but exactly opposite happened. Why? Pakistani leaders fixed a cork on their thinking heads by making allah as the supreme head of state thereby making Koran and hadiths as its de-facto constitution. So country was heading to 21st centaury by implementing at 7th centuary laws & ideals and again without anyone daring to question. Monstor was created and regularly fed that has now grown too big for anyone to fit it back in a bottle. Islamic philosophy being us against others –Islamic monster was launched against hindus of India and Pakistan and Ahmediyas.
Well Pakistani Hindus and Ahmadiyya were eliminated (or on verge of being so) and Hindu India got lucky to turn the direction of this monster to inside. So now this monster is turning to Shias and then it will be the turn of Barelvis and later Wahabis will kill each other. Again question arises Why? Muslims will answer that these are misguided people and are not following the real tenets of islam. The fact is that these are the people that are really following the real tenets of islam – remember Abdul Wahab reformed islam by taking it back to its original roots. The other sects like Sufis, Ahmidyas and now shias are heretics who diverged from one and only true Islamic path and they need to be killed.
Identity:
Islam is the core reason for pakistan’s miseries and its immediate victim was the loss of the identity of the people who converted to it.
Islam also destroyed Iran. It killed or converted almost all Zoroastrians. Look at Parsis in India and Pakistan – they are the most entrepreneurial people in the world. Look at the wealth they have created. India has around 1.5 lac Parsis and they control best of the Indian companies and also are great educationist, philanthropists, etc. I am sure they would be same in Pakistan. Now just imagine these people ruling Iran – what Iran would have become. Since Islam is ruled by islam – it has become pariah state. But still Iranians take pride in their Persian ancestry and are doing better than other Islamic world.
What about Pakistanis – who are they. Honestly they are confused people. Their ancestry is Hindu whom they hate and despise and would never loose an opportunity to run them down or out right kill them. They follow Arabic religion and try to follow them blindly but are treated like sh*t by the arabs . The Pakistani’s heroes are the Arabic ones or those who attacked, killed and raped their ancestors (Ghauri, Qasim, Abdali, etc). Their instincts make them follow Hindu culture, movies, song and dance but intellect goes against it and tries to push to it Arabic way of life. Moreover their anthem is in Persian. They want to lead Islamic Ummah – but ummah treats them as non-entities. Any normal human would be confused and ask who he is? Whom to believe and what to follow? The void is created and this void is filled by Islamic philosophy of hate towards others.
Are there any solutions?
Yes – with media both mainstream and on internet – it will be impossible to hide falsehood – no matter how much censorship is introduced. I see on TV – Islamic history after mohammed has already been discredited (just listen to Hasan Nissar) – and the net is doing a fine job of discrediting the history of mohammed’s era. I know most of the muslims are in denial and trying to find the answers and hiding behind unreasonable explanations – but few educated ones are leaving Islam and spreading their new found knowledge of religion. Even your blog is doing a good job of highlighting the symptoms of the disease – well sooner or later muslims will be forced to think what exactly is the real cause of these symptoms – my effort is just a small one to make you think the unthinkable. Good Luck (you need lots of it).
As I had warned that this two dime creep is not a secular but merely a hindu rightwiger.
I would have repected him if he had been a secualr or an athiest. But this crap was nothing but a way to show how his religion of birth is superior.
BTW since LUBP claims to represent Shia muslims, Mr Raman’s categorization that Islam is evil means that all its followers are following evil ideology.
Anyways as I said earlier it is one thing to publish articles which denounce religion in a secualr way and another when you publish racist artcles trying to prove superiority of one religion over other
Yes LUBP you have upheld freedom of speech here, no doubt about it. But please do not call publishing a racist as “liberal”.
Oh wow … highly impressed. Very brave, insightful and well written article.
The topic is “Is Islam the Problem behind the issues concerning Pakistan” but the run down shows a multi-purpose article which can be directed to any Islamic Country. Here is my take.
Raman, you have connected economic and political turmoil, prevailing at this point in time, in Islamic countries, with the religion Islam. LoL. Who is going to believe your personal opinion? In this free world every person has a right to own their personal opinion but certainly not binding on others.
Now, coming back to your input, it is understandable that you have a point on religions, since Hinduism is no religion, in fact it is the absence of religion. If you visit five centuries back history of subcontinent, the Hindus were having the same problems that we are facing now. But, my dear friend, what religion has to do with the political and economic problems? They are purely worldly. The terrorism and killings that you are seeing now is due to hatred developed against West due their creation of Israel and expelling Palestinians like stray dogs. During four Arab-Israel wars, the latter had unqualified support of West,especially that of USA. Ask any anthropologist or psychologist, hate is the strongest emotion of homo sapiens that translates into act of any kind of revenge. If a class of people is compelled to believe that injustice enforced upon them is to the point of helplessness, then naturally blood will flow. Kashmir is another live example. Unfortunately, present terrorism has transformed into professionalism. Millions of dollars change hands to provide suicide bombers for elimination of any unwanted personality or a group of people. Again, what religion has got to do with this demon?
I have gone through the whole article twice. The spread-sheet of this article has, like thousand of articles already published by ordinary and eminent writers, repeated the same saga. Yours is not the unique one. But none could establish the same with Islamic ideology. Same is the case with you. Apple tree is grown by sowing apple seed, orange tree is grown with that of orange. The two seeds have no relation with each other. Similarly, political chaos is due to political instability. It can never ever be linked with the religious ideology. When Muhammad Bin Qasim entered in Sind with his 200 soldiers, it was due to political instability prevailing throughout this sub-continent. US didn’t occupy Iraq and Afghanistan to impose Christianity there, this was purely political issue. You must be well aware of the word patriotism. This is country to country alliance and enmity to safeguard their economic interests and independent of Religion. US had no desire to jump into World War I and World War II, but had to jump in when their arms sales bills were dangerously at stake. Religion has long gone in the background. But you are still beating the bush for reasons best known to you. If we take your yard stick that this political anarchy among Muslims is due to “something very much wrong in Islam”, then due to in-fightings, tyranny, injustice etc. prevailing in India in the past that gave opportunity to Ghaznavis, Khiljis and Mughals to rule over India was due to “something very much wrong in the basic ideology of Hinduism”, LoL. According to your yardstick, Hinduism had basic defect in the period when Muslims, England, Dutch and Portuguese ruled India. After independence, the same Hinduism became the “best religion” of the world, lol. Sorry, correction, there is a big misconception about Hinduism. Hinduism is not a religion. It is the absence of religion.
Rig Veda says:
Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?
Hinduism has so much of a complexity, the followers thereof may be monotheist, polytheist or simply atheist – anything goes. Contrary to what Rig Veda describes as above, there is also a concept of Ishwara, one Supreme God and this faith is followed by many Hindus. For an outsider like me this is a very confusing. In fact, no person from Historians and academia could define Hinduism. All religions have basically codes of morality and piety, almost the same, but the great difference lies in the name of God and mode of worship. No such discipline in Hinduism – no holds barred.
There is a special agenda for pin pointing Pakistan. Pakistan is a nuclear country. If you have tested five bombs we have tested six. The cost of preparing bomb and fissile is less for Pakistan (centrifugal displacement is the cheapest in the world). No doubt your country has an edge in missile range, but rest assured our missile range is enough to hit either Calcutta or Raskumari.
Having said this much, my opening sentence is this is a multi-purpose article, meaning thereby, you can try to attack any Muslim country by replacing “Pakistan” from the topic, the rest will hold good. But what follows is simply a foolish attempt to compare apple with orange.
Sorry Raman, with all due respect, you could not prove your point, rather it has boomeranged. Try another article.
Dear Humayun,
1. You are saying that problems concerning pakistan r not due to Islam but other factors.
Any one with a slight rationality will agree with me. I again give the reasons below :
1. Indians and pakistanis are same people – so why is India a better country to live in – (despite it having more problems), even for muslims, than pakistan?
2. There are 57 Islamic countries and all (except 3 and few oil rich states)are failures and these 3 are better for non-islamic reasons. Why?
3. The more Islamic you get the worse the state becomes examples are Somalia, Sudan, Afganistan, Iran, S. Arabia, etc. whereas more liberal you r the better the state becomes – Turkey is a good example. Why?
4. Why is there minimal scientific development in Islamic countries – the situation is pathetic (admitted by almost all scholars)?
5. Why r muslims killing muslims – 25 shias were killed just 2 days ago – i think thousands of muslims have been killed by muslims during the holy month?
6. Why is criticism on Islam prohibited – Salman Taseer was killed just for showing some support to a Christian lady – this is not a problem – single loony person can be in any society – but his killer being showered with flower petals and that too by educated laywers is pathetic – ask yourself why?
7. Why are muslims afraid to discuss the character of mohammed openly – what is there to hide – in case he was a good man why be afraid – y r many websites that tell the real story of islam banned in islamic countries?
8. Have you ever noticed that muslims get most violent on Fridays and after Namaz – when they r supposed to be worshiping god and being good – this is universal world over – why?
I know you will give lame reasoning for the above – and try to find excuses and blaming all others except islam – but the fact is that Islam is totally responsible for it and the main reason is that Islam prohibits asking of QUESTIONS.
I personally am not affected by it but you r in middle of the problem. It is natural that unless problem is not identified and solved the issue will not go away. I know there are several analyst who are beating around the bush and trying to find the answers to the problem but none is saying anything against Islam (due to genuine fear)- let me say that problem will not get solved. I make a prediction – this problem will escalate in coming years and the consequences will be worse.
The only solution is to start asking yourself hard questions and try to find equally hard answers by removing fear of islam from your head. I am an outsider and can see the situation better than you. Just pause for a moment and think – maybe there is some truth in what I am saying.
PS : Hinduism – I admit i have very little knowledge of hinduism but in case what you say is right – then it is great – reason – religion sucks and almost all religions have been exposed to an extent that soon religion will be history world over. Atheism is the fastest growing belief, so in case you say that Hinduism is not a religion – that is a positive statement.
Check this out :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=406195849428085&set=a.243120629068942.53720.232112000169805&type=1&theater
As against 868 million Hindus, 132 million Muslims live in India. They are shoulder to shoulder in the progress of India and you are showing me a handful of miscreants. I am not talking about Babri Masjid and Gujrat massacre of Muslims. I take it that all is ok in India. My take is not answered by you, that all these incidents are due to dirty politics. BUT FROM WHERE HAVE YOU DEDUCED THAT IT IS DUE TO SOMETHING WRONG WITH ISLAM. Showing political and economical disturbances and blaming it with the ideology of Islam is just your withful brain child and will not convince any sane person. All you have done is repetition without answering my take.
Kindly read my first comment one more time and answer to my deliberations. Only then the debate will get progress.
I am a Muslim and I am a Pakistani. The points that Raman is making are valid and I have been coming to similar conclusions myself. Islam is generally the most violent, opressive and agressive faith on the planet. People will try to say that it is also the most opressed but that is simply not true.
I have pointed out before also that Mr. Raman is not a scholar but a Hindu righwinger. He has been severly critisized by all moderate hindus on various facebook forums. Ad how he has come here just to prove how is religion of birth is better than Islam.
He is not an intellectual or an even intelligent person but a third class two dime racist.
IIf you wang to debate with him well go ahead. But can you really debate with a ————–?
Editor: Further use of abusive language will result in blocking of your account. Counter the arguements but please mind your language.
@Khalid,
Just think what politics is there is showering petals by lawyers on Salman Taseer’s killer. Don’t block your mind. Just THINK objectively. We are fortunate to have internet – watch debates on Youtube, read them at http://www.alisina.org. Look around you. Look at the video of the killing of Shias 4 days ago – people are shouting Shias are Kafirs – what politics is in this – it is simple case of hatred towards “Others”. What is the source of hatred – it is in Islam and its tenets. Read a book written by a devout muslim : Criminals of Islam
http://ourbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/admin2/2007/08/criminals.pdf – where writer has discredited almost all Islamic scholars with proofs but still does not touch mohammed and koran in case you want to know about mohammed and koran then visit http://www.faithfreedom.org and http://www.alisina.org (I dont know if you can access them in Pak).
But I am hopeful : 1. My views have been published in Pak blog – which is an excellent thing
2. There are people like Ali – who are questioning and trying to find the answers.
I just wish this spreads further and these topics gets discussed in open without any fear.
So you do not have any thing to say in rebuttal to my points Mr. Raman. Should I presume that you were making a false claim in the wake of your inputs in which you are talking about North Pole, you are talking South Pole but never coming even near to Equator.
We were not talking about events and incidents, they happened, happen and would continue to happen till the world is revolving round the sun and round its own axis. This is the way the whole world is. Within three and half months more than 800,000 Rwandans were killed, none were Muslims, they were mostly christians of Tutsi and Hutu clans. Nobody blamed Christianity for this. It was purely political and economic issue.
You keep on beating the bush by cut/pastes and giving links, but in fact you do not have ability to justify your claim, in fact a hollow claim.
For a moment I thought you would come up with logics to prove your point. I am now convinced about what Securlarist has said about you in this thread.
You better go back to Facebook and Twitter where anything so foolish is order of the day.
@Khalid,
When so many killings and atrocities around you does not make you think and ask questions – I would be foolish to expect my article will open your eyes. This is the problem with 99% of Pakistanis – rest 1% (like Ali) are either leaving Pakistan or r helpless (the percentages are subject to correction). Keep your brains closed and enjoy the mayhem.
@Raman
third class bigot, before reforming Islam why dont you try reforming yourself.
Now I have seen you thrashed at facebook by all the liberal hindus. If you were that right why even they dont take seriously.
On top of it, look at your ego. You think that 99% of Muslims have a problem just because they dont believe you.
Such arrogance. Who are you in the first place??
With an IQ and mentality like that you should first have a serious thought about visiting a shrink.
“If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.” (Muhammad ibn Zakariya Al Razi, Leading philosopher and scientist of medieval Islamic world).
By the way Al Razi is considered to be one of the greated “muslim” scientists even though he was not a muslim just like Akbar the great and many others.
2 debates around “Is islam a religion of peace”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-spKm13v6c