Ali Q said:
First of, Kashif and others like him are doing a public service by pointing out that it is better to discuss the news rather than discuss theories. The news is: GHQ attack, extremists from southern punjab, safe house outside of islamabad, breach of security, impending war on waziristan.
Rather than indulging in inconsistent theories, look at what is reported in the NEWS (i repeat, REPORTED!) . (The theories are inconsistent, because the person presenting the theory contradicts some facet of his theory while presenting it)
The number of theories floating in this thread is beyond ridiculous. (Note, I call all of the following theories and not analysis. Because analysis, is by its very nature, something that is grounded in facts, unlike everything proposed here).
I am sure I could have counted more, but my patience gave in. So, without further ado, some wonderful gems from the responses above:
1) “The timings over here also seem perfect. First the Peshawar Blast and now the GHQ attack….that means Waziristan Operation is just about to start within few weeks!”
2)”Its really alarming situation for our security forces and our leadership should now raise the voice against INDIAN involvement in the incedents of terrorism but it would pay my my salute to the martyers of GHQ attack.”
3) tahir001 “Today everything is upside down, Taliban working for India, US working for India, Zardari government serving interests of the US and India, Baloch and Pukhtoon nationalists working for Afghans, India and the US.”
4) “Rehman Malik is behind all this Act.His new task is to launch Operation In south Waziristan from his GOD (America)and he is making peoples mind slowly watch him carefully and read his face when he speaks”
5) nawaz “Todays event at GHQ was just a pretext to justify military action in Waziratan. You need to strengthen reasons to get political support and backing from pak nationals for military operation in Wazirastan.”
6) JavedKhan “This attack is organised by Rehman Malik and Zardari…….so far even after 12 hours no news about Gen Kiyani. Or is he among the hostages. Zardari wants to trap Gen Kiyani so that he could get Kerry-Lugar Bill approved.”
Hahahaha. This one was funny.
7) nawaz “Shame on PPP Govt and american agents like MUSHRAF, Be-Rehman, Hussain Haqqani, and Zardari (many others) because of them and their policies, we are killing our nation. They are working more for USA security than securing Pakistan.”
8)mmmalik “I think it is black water.”
9)zaheer “but they are dead silence about operation against blackwater and similars which are in the capital of our country! They are planning and executing suicide and other similar attacks in disguise of Talibans etc. Taliban are stupid people, they can’t carry out such sensitive, big and complex tasks, at least not alone!”
10) Another gem, by Javedkhan “This attack is not genuine, this is fake attack organised by Rehman Malik and Zardari to get rid of Gen Kiyani. The attacks on Sri Lankain Cricket Team and Munawaan Police Academry were also carried out by Rehman Malik and Zardari.”
11) black panther “..there is still time that we understand the American/Israeli/Indian agenda and take actions on our clock instead of at the node of an American stick……..or it will be too late………..”
12) nonamipuppa “just get rid of rehman malik, sulman taseer and asif zardari . this will be end of terrorism in the country.”
13) molvirpg “As soon as the military locked horns with Zardari on Kerry Lugar they were given a clear message in the form of an attack on the GHQ that it won’t be a cake walk (A jeep and two trucks) this time.”
14)sabazbagh “People also opine that the recent weapons & bombs used in attack on GHQ, were especially supplied ONLY A FEW DAYS BACK by the ‘goras’ of U.S & Dutch embassy staff, BUT ”
15)revivalist “I hope this is not an inside job to pave a way for a full scale operation in Waziristan and make public opening for it in advance by doing such evil tactics.”
16)zaheer “Hakeem Ullah and similars are just drama, puppet and stupid people who play in the hands of people like you and your masters!”
17) Public “This terrorist activity looks like a response from AI2 block to PAK army for showing resistance against K.L. Bill.”
18) Eyrie “If USA was ever serious in Afghanistan it would have sealed the Pak-Afghan border from first day and at least stopped the flow of militants across the border. But clearly that is not what they meant in the first place. Their main objective is to destabilize Pakistan.”
To all of you:
First of all, do notice, how all of you cannot be true at the same time. Because you’d conflict with each other.
Second, you’ve been blessed with an education and the ability to think: use your five senses and observations, rather than use your imagination to come to a conclusion.
And now, I submit.
I want to make one thing very clear, I am not shifting any blame. I am against anyone who uses violence against innocent civilians or our security forces and they don’t deserve any leniency. I am very sorry to say but it looks like you are on verge of some sort of break down.
You mentioned analysis of facts but I didn’t see any analysis from your side but very lame attempt to taunt others for their lack of ability to analyse facts, which doesn’t bode well for you as you are content with copying and pasting comments from some members of this forum and thus coming up with a new comment.
Drone attacks is a fact not a theory. India’s consulates in neighbouring Afghanistan is a fact not theory. Innocent people getting killed in Drone attacks is a fact not theory. Indian spies who used to be imams and teachers in east Pakistan is not a theory. Tune to a TV channel and read the news of Afghan Imams being arrested in N-W.F.P.
Ali Q said
“The number of theories floating in this thread is beyond ridiculous. (Note, I call all of the following theories and not analysis. Because analysis, is by its very nature, something that is grounded in facts, unlike everything proposed here)”
I think you need some facts to counter all these theories and not just a “Qol-e-Zareen” from your highness to prove everything is bullshit.
Ali Q said:
I would debate, Eyrie, however “I reject reality and substitute it for my own” is the stance taken by many of the people here.
Now, as for addressing your point…
If USA was ever serious in Afghanistan it would have sealed the Pak-Afghan border from first day and at least stopped the flow of militants across the border. But clearly that is not what they meant in the first place. Their main objective is to destabilize Pakistan.
If you follow the news, America doesn’t have control over all of Afghanistan. As an example, the Hemland province is a province the Americans didn’t step into until this past summer. While your demand that they the seal the pak-afghan border seems legitimate, it is impractical: NATO certainly doesn’t have a force large enough to patrol our shared border with Afghanistan. If they put all the troops on that border, who will fight the insurgency within the country?
So, more specifically, since the news doesn’t support your points: I don’t believe America is working to destabilize Pakistan. It is not. It’s just failing to stabilize Afghanistan (through inefficient strategies, slow paced reconstruction, betting too much on the corrupt karzai etc.) all of which has a knock on effect on us.
If you scan through our history and the news,
Pakistan’s militant problem is the sum of the following elements
= LARGEST contributor (more than 70%): our policy failures ( support of militancy post 1980 + proxy jihad launched against india in kashmir + slow reaction against militants post 9/11 + musharraf’s wooing of islamists in nwfp + our inability to solve balochistan + army leadership’s short-sighted policy of finding strategic depth in afghanistan through a militant force like the taliban+us not taking issue with the middle eastern countries on the funneling of Arab money that supports this insurgency+ lack of educational reform+few opportunities for the poor+many more points)
+ REASONABLY large contributor (25%): America’s policy failures (america/nato’s failed war strategies in afghanistan,
america not buying the allegiance of militant units where possible through $$$+ america not investing in the civil institutions of Pakistan+ inability to cut taliban’s drug-related source of funding+ many more points)
+ MUCH smaller contributor (5%): Elements who want to see the end of Pakistan as a state (intelligence agencies/raw?/the israelis?/all the parties to alluded by conspiracy theorists)
I refuse to speculate unlike so many of you here. I don’t think all of you are taliban lovers 99% of you are not on Taliban’s side either.
However: Your belief is if we ignore the problem (or americans ignore the taliban) the problem will go away. While that is partially true, that solution is temporary. Yes, you might not suffer today, but your children or their children will. (Just like we today are bearing the fruit of misguided policies of the military in the 80s/90s)
Letting the taliban rule as they wish in swatches within the country is like having wild animal caged up in a makeshift cage. It will eventually find it’s way out to cause havoc.
Very good analysis ,I do agree with some points ,I just want to add that this is basically an “Ideology ” which is the driving force of militancy ,from afghan war ,proxy Kashimir jihad ,Elements in the army ,funding ,loyalty ,public support all of these are from an ideology and the concept ,Those who are thinking that this is just a war against USA attack are wrong .yes this could be the part of it but even witour USA this animals will grow more unless all people will go against them just like sawat
When will this stop? Stop blaming the west stop blaming anyone else for this mess. Stop the blame…………..STOP IT FOREVER and take responsibility.
For GOD SAKE, For the sake of anything you believe in, for your children’s sake stand up and kill these animals.Go raid the madrassas, take your children out of there and kill these mullahs with the guns and bombs they have gathered for you. It baffles my mind to see and think how can many cities and villages in Pakistan can still be safe heavens and homes for these people.
I cant imagine how people can go burn Christian homes because they burned quran supposedly and no one wants to kill these bearded animals who kill your kids and your people every day in thousands. Why sectarianism can claim lives of thousands of shias and not one mullah gets killed not one madrassa gets toppled even after these jihadis take responsibility for every bomb and every death on your streets. Where has the humanity gone, why is there so much anger about sect and religion and quran burning and no anger over this. Why do people still find justifications for these animals in form of they have been oppressed by west and they are american agents and blah blah blah.
Why is a justification or logic necessary, why do you need to understand why they are doing it. Will an answer to this question stop it???? no b/c there is no end to a madness that has no base. For God sake do not make Pakistan another version of religiously run oppressed nation.
We dont want to be Iran or saudi arab…… they are religious fanatics, not ways to God. When will people remember mullahs never wanted Pakistan, and yet once it was made they found it was so easy to make uneducated, poor masses of this nation believe in the fact that Pakistan was made to be an islamic state, no IT WAS NOT. People who didnt want it then became the hunters for prey to fulfill their ideology of twisted religion. The day they set foot here and the day people started looking up to them for answers we started digging our own grave. So yes you have foreign hand but thats not what started this mess.
This mess started in 1947 when mullahs took Pakistan hostage by claiming the rights to it b/c it was “MUSLIM” state. IS this the ISLAM you want? So next time when you try to kill another Paksitani b/c he is a christain or shia or jew or whatever please remember to count the number of jihadis, mullahs and madrassas you have destroyed b/c if that number is even 1 less than the number of your own fellow citizens you have killed or are about to kill….may be you dont really understand what the religion of peace and tolerance had stood for. I dont live there anymore, i cant imagine having my children in deaths hands every day, i cant imagine not being able to go out and not know if i will come back home but you know how does it feel like so why are you letting these animals live in your cities and communities. Blame anyone you want but start cleaning house before anything else…..PLEASE………………please dont let another single child go to these madrassas……….PLEASE STOP THE TERROR NOW!!!!!
Bottomline is that the day we all learn to be Pakistani before anything else, shia sunni, pathan, punjabi, sindhi, baloch….there will be victory. Unless we restore jinnah’s original vision for a state that was run seperately from reliogion and free for all, these elements will breed. Blaming west is easy but as a nation unless there is a educated, patriotic (not islamic) revolution, this can be beginning of the end.
I pray people of my country wake up and shed the emotional baggage of Pakistan is for ISLAM…and embrace Pakistan is for paksitani’s and we tolerate every religion….we can hope for brighter tomorrow.
The Only Possible Solution to overcome this Fitna of Taliban…. Pakistan Army take Control of Area:
I always suggest that only best possible Solution to this Situation is this that Pakistan Army took control of these Mad Terrorists and take the control of Region.
But Taliban apologists still support Taliban and Anti-Pak Army by suggesting that Pak Army has nothing to do in our own Pak Land and it is not our War against Terrorism.
Pakistan created Taliban for it’s Interests, like:
– Pak wanted Stable Afghanistan for Trade and Route to Central Asian Muslim Countries.
– Also Pak wanted to provide Indian Exporters a Road/Railway Route till Central Asian Countries.
– Also Oil Pipeline was an attractive option.
Nevertheless, Pakistan got not a Single Penny benefit by creating Taliban. Instead of this Pakistan suffered a HUGE Loss due to Taliban [all kind of losses including Economical Loss, Stretegic Loss, Stability loss……]
– Taliban Apologists claim creation of TAliban was Excellent while Pakistan could have Ruled over Afghanistan through Pushtoon factor of Taliban. [i.e. neo-colonizing Afghanistan as US does in Muslim Countries through non-democratic Kings]
But these Taliban Apologists are equally Jahil as Taliban and absolutely not able to view that:
– By Supporting Taliban due to them being Pushtoons and letting them Killing all other Uzbek, Tajik, Turkaman, Hazaras ethnic Groups, Pakistan made all of them enemy too.
– And Central Asian Countries, with whom we wanted to do Trade (by bringing Taliban) were themselves Uzbeks, Tajiks and Turkamanistan and Azerbaijan.
– These Central ASian Countries started hating Pakistan too.
Not only they hated Pakistan, but they also supported all factions which were fighting against Taliban by providing weapons etc to groups like Ahmad Shah Masood and General Doostam.
– US got the plan to destabilize the Muslim Ummah by starting Sectarian and Interests fight among Muslims. For surely sooner or later there would have been full Scale war between Taliban and Iran.
– And Oil Pipeline from Central Asian Countries through AFghanistan till Pakistan was only a Dream.
And America showed this Dream to us so that there could be hatred and tensions between Pakistan and Iran on Issue of Pipeline.
[Pipeline through Iran till Sea was about 325 Km long, while via Afghanistan-Pakistan it was more than 1650 km Long]
Route via Afghanistan/Pakistan was never competitional against route through Iran, and US knew it. But still US wanted that two brotherly Muslim Countries start hating each other over their Interests and US succeeded in it’s Plan and there were tensions between Tehran and Islamabad.
Later US betrayed Afghanistan and Pakistan over Oil Pipeline while it was only a dream which US showed to us for achieving it’s evil plans.
– Other US plan was to destablize China through Extremist Talibans.
Result: There were Tensions between Beijing and Islamabad over Taliban.
– Actually, whole rest of world looked at Pakistan with hatred while Pakistan was Supporting those wild animals, who got no place in any Civilized Society. India used this hatred very successfully against Pakistan.
So, in past Pakistan was unable to benefit a single Penny from Taliban.
Contrary to this, Pakistan suffered huge loss in every field.
And Present is even more DARKER than our Past.