It was that stiff attitude of Nawaz League that brought a military coup upon citizen of Pakistan, which lasted 10 years and completely destroyed the fabrics of our society. Today PML N’s Saad Rafiq supposedly calls PPP out on the tactics which he calls of “hit and run” while forgetting that their tactics of hit and hold, got them kicked out of country and dictatorship imposed on the people. I was told as a kid that storms break the hard arrogant trees while the grass that bend survives the worst of the storms.

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The author is again wrong. He finds that if PPP is destroyed, Pakistan will be destroyed. That’s not! true.

The lust for power of PPP’s heads made Pakistan be divided in two. PPP helped in division of Bangladesh from Pakistan.

Walaikum salaam-o–Warahmat-ULLAH Muhammad Istehbab Sb…
I support the Author’s ideas…..
1.It was not an error, President has used its constitutional powers but Judges party has refused in the same way as Mush and Army has refused to follow the Civilian Govt. in 99
PPP’s principle stance has earned him sympathies in Lawyers leadership as Kurd, Justice(R) Tariq Mehmood, Asma Jehangir and others. Lawyers present opportunist leadership were exposed by their own blunders….
2.PPP’s compromise has exposed the so called champions of principle,rule of law and merit…..
3. Those who escaped from the elections were exposed as they have no love for constitution etc just taking sides to damage democratic Govt.
4.If PPP has deviated JI will come into action and treat them as they have treated Bengalis…They have more trained fellows than Al Badr and Al Shams with international Allies…
5. Dekhne Hum Bhi Gay Par Tamasha Na Howaa

Dear Sakib
You are right. I cannot compete with the blood-thirsty Islamofascist journalists you have mentioned.

Muhammad Istehbab :
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
The author is again wrong. He finds that if PPP is destroyed, Pakistan will be destroyed. That’s not! true.
The lust for power of PPP’s heads made Pakistan be divided in two. PPP helped in division of Bangladesh from Pakistan.

Watch US President Nixon signature and read as to who was being supported by the USA it wasn’t Bhutto but Yahya [US Declassified Document] Handwritten note from President Richard M. Nixon on an April 28, 1971, National Security Council decision paper: “To all hands. Don’t squeeze Yahya at this time – RMN” http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/

Sakib Ahmad :
@Omar Khattab
Dear Omar,
It is true that Haroon-ur-Rasheed had toured Swat with the Pakistan Army javaans and he was adamant that the evil of Pakistani Taliban must be rooted out. So that makes him “blood thirsty” in your book? You are a funny man, Omar, beyond my comprehension. I believe the other three journalists also backed the stance taken by Haroon-ur-Rasheed.
By the way, what is your definition of the word “Islamofascist”? So far as I am aware this term was coined by the Americans and swallowed whole by our westernised fascists, who were mostly bought off with wads of dollars or frightened out of their wits by the Americans’ “shock and awe” tactics. My hunch is that they sold themselves cheap – they could have asked for a higher price.

Haroon Rasheed is also exposed: [watch the video]

PKPolitics Website respond against Rauf Klasra and Haroon Rasheed

http://thecurrentaffairs.com/pkpolitics-website-respond-against-rauf-klasra-and-haroon-rasheed.html

Haroon Rasheed Comes to Rescue his Nephew & Brother
JULY 27, 2009 . in NEWS
http://PKPOLITICS.COM/2009/07/27/HAROON-RASHEED-COMES-TO-RESCUE-HIS-NEPHEW-BROTHER/
Haroon Rasheed wrote a column in Jang today in support of Rauf Klasra calling him as his brother and his nephew Mohammad Malick in response to their exposed corruption by PKPolitics.

@Aamir Mughal

Dear Aamir,

I am surprised at your comments in response to my reply to Omar Khattab. I have noticed that when you are unable to talk intelligently you start slinging mud right and left or you start filling up space with miles of copying and pasting.

Who are the veiled thugs behind that disreputable website pkpolitics? You should stay away from shady website where people do not disclose their identities.

Rauf Klasra is another journalist I think of highly. I am glad that Haroon had the guts to stand up for him against his invisible enemies hell bent on destroying him. If you have any tangible evidence against Rauf, please institute proceedings against him in a Pakistani court of law.

Let me state once again: Journalists like Haroon-ur-Rasheed, Saleem Safi, Dr Safdar Mahmood, Hamid Mir, Rauf Klasra, Javed Chaudhry, etc are our national treasure, Pakistanis we can be truly proud of.

Sakib Ahmad :
@Aamir Mughal
Dear Aamir,
I am surprised at your comments in response to my reply to Omar Khattab. I have noticed that when you are unable to talk intelligently you start slinging mud right and left or you start filling up space with miles of copying and pasting.
Hamid Mir, are our national treasure, Pakistanis we can be truly proud of.

Indeed Hamid Mir is a National Treasure:

Hamid Mir Calamity & Geo TV. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/12/hamid-mir-calamity-geo-tv.html

I wonder was there any professional check on Mr. Hamid Mir (now in GEO TV) when he filed that story in one of the most ‘prestigious’ newspaper of the country and shamelessly the editorial executives are now advising all and sundry to check and cross check before filing any story. Did they ask from that reporter that Atomic/Nuclear devices are not that kind of devices, which can be carried away easily like .22 caliber pistol? Yet they published Hamid Mir’s story as headline in Daily Dawn as a gospel truth.

It’s a separate debate whether Al-Qaeda/Taliban was involved in 9/11 or not but still after thoroughly bombed and destroyed Afghanistan, the most high tech US Intelligence apparatus couldn’t ‘succeed’ in nabbing the Bearded Bandits i.e. Osama, Zawahiri and Omar {seems to be the disciples of Hassan Bin Sabbah of Nazari Community of Qila Al Amut, Khorasan} but isn’t it strange that these wanted persons are being sought after by CIA, NSA, DIA, FBI etc.etc. but a petty reporter of Pakistan not only knows where he was right after 9/11 and that was not the end, the reporter also declared himself as an un-official biographer of Osama Bin Laden.

Dear Sakib
I am glad and thankful to you for calling me funny. It is better to be funny than emotional-religious. What is Islamofasism? you have asked. An ideology which says that we must conquer the world in the name of Allah and fly Pakistani/Islamic flag in places like Delhi, Moscow and New York. Islamofascism is the ideology which says killing in the name of Islam is justified. This is what all the Taliban and Saudia stand for including the journalists of your choice.
As for Amir Mughal, he is a great researcher. I have a PhD,l so I hope you will not trash my statement about him.
As for you, please keep communicaiing because a dialogue is better than killing.
Regards

Dear Sakib
People like Haroon ur Rashid are as much Islamofascist as Zaid Hamid and Dr Israr. The only difference is that their modus operandi is different. So I do not owe apology to anyone.
It is easy to accuse America and close eyes to the real culprit which is Saudi Arabia and the ISI. Of course American evil is stupendous. But it is a part of the Wahabi agenda to conquer the “Kafir” world.
I don’t know why you fetishize these Islamofascist journalists. Something Freudian?

Dear Omar,

This is yet another attempt to appeal to your good sense. For some reason you seem unable to put away your ingrained prejudices and embrace a broad cross-section of Pakistani society.

You have provided me with a definition of the term “Islamofascism” and I have shown you why it is totally inappropriate to apply that term to people like Haroon. Far from offering an apology, you now justify that insult under the pretext of something you call Haroon’s – and others’? – “modus operandi”. If this is not a figment of somebody’s imagination, kindly explain what it is you are alluding to.

You continue using the term “Islamofascism”, quite oblivious of its undertones of mockery for Islam, our Deen. This term was coined by people who loathe Islam and Muslims and it is a matter of considerable shame that it has been so enthusiastically embraced by the very people who ought to be telling the Americans to stop the use of this pejorative term.

Your request for an apology to Mr Aamir Mughal leaves me bemused. Take a look at this conversation in another post yesterday:

Me: “Quite simply, Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a supreme example of a true Muslim in the twentieth century. Cast away your cold history books and get to know Jinnah, the man.”

AM: “Jinnah was a Politicians and that is it and if you want to Worship him by putting at the place of Allah then I have no problem”.

Now, if you have any sense of fair play, do tell me who owes an apology to whom.

Finally, I would advise you not to use immoderate language. Do I have to spell out the obvious to you? What distinguishes Urdu journalism from the pathetic level of newspapers like Dawn is the knowledge and wisdom – as opposed to mere education – that so many Urdu journalists possess, and the indefinable quality they have that captures the essence of ‘Pakistaniat’.
[I am obviously not talking about second and third raters such as Asadullah Ghalib whose scribbles you are fond of displaying here from time to time].

Dear Sakib
You have praised Jinnah. Fine. But did you know he was a Shia Muslim? Will you praise him now? People like Haroon Rashid, just like their mentor Zia ul Haq, have never been to Jinnah’s grave. You know why?

Dr Safdar Mahmood’s “Hum se doori kyu.n”:
http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/feb2010-daily/24-02-2010/col5.htm

Jinnah’s ancestry:

Jinnah’s grandfather was Poonja Gokuldas Meghji, a Hindu from Kathiawar, Gujarat. His father was Jinnahbhai Poonja, a prosperous merchant, who appears to have converted to Islam (Ismaili Khoja sect) and moved to Sindh.

Jinnah’s views on a constitution for Pakistan:

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims –Hindus, Christians, and Parsis –but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.
[Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948]

In Pakistan today there is a regrettable conflict going on between the forces of mullahism and those of westernised fascism. Each side is trying to present a grotesque image of Jinnah in support of its own agenda.

Although the mullahs had opposed the idea of Pakistan and dubbed both Jinnah and Iqbal as ‘kaafirs’, they now appear to be bending over backwards to claim them both as pious ‘Muslims’ in their own image! Undoubtedly, Iqbal and Jinnah were both great Muslims but their perception of Islam was fundamentally different from that of the mullahs (see quotes below). To our mullahs, Pakistan ought to be a “theocratic” state, conforming to their myopic view of “religion”.

As for the westernised fascists, they hypocritically turn a blind eye to the stark reality that the idea of an independent state for the Muslims of India was the vision of Iqbal, which he first presented publicly in 1930. Pakistan owes its existence to two people above all: Iqbal, the Visionary and Jinnah, the Leader. Iqbal’s acceptance of Jinnah as leader was total. Our westernised fascists are straining every limb and every nerve they possess to present Jinnah as “secular” and to deny Iqbal his pre-eminent position as the driving force behind the demand for Pakistan.

As with any individual, Jinnah’s life, too, had distinct phases. From the westernised dandy of his youth, he gradually evolved into a man with a remarkable insight into Islam and the Qur’an. He went around with a copy of the Qur’an within reach, which he consulted frequently. His talk relating to the constitution of Pakistan brings this out with remarkable clarity where he related democracy to ‘the essential principle of Islam’ and not to western liberalism. Jinnah’s emphasis on just treatment for all, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, is nothing other than a Quraanic injunction that Pakistanis either suppress (our mullahs’ mendacity) or they attribute to the West (the westernised hypocrites’ ignorance of their own heritage and craven servility towards the West).

Jinnah, on the occasion of Eid, 13 November 1939, said:

“No injunction is considered by our holy Prophet (pbuh) more imperative and more divinely binding than the devout but supreme realisation of our duty of love and toleration towards all other human beings”

OTHER QUOTES:

“Islamic principles today are as applicable to life as they were 1,300 years ago … Islam and its idealism have taught democracy. Islam has taught equality, justice and fair play for everybody … The Prophet (pbuh) was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and he was a great sovereign who ruled.”
[address to the Bar Association of Karachi, 25 January 1948]

We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind.
[Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi July 1, 1948]

We should have a state in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play.
[address to Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers, October 11, 1947]

You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve.
[address to officers and men of Pakistan military, February 21, 1948]

FINALLY, Omar Khattab, misquoting from the Qur’an is a sin. If you are not just trying to score cheap points here, do have the decency to quote the Quraanic verse in full, giving the Surah and Aayat number. It will then be obvious to all that there is no linkage between the subject we are discussing and the Quraanic passage you refer to. Do you have the honesty to do that?

My Dear Omar,

You say you have a doctorate and yet you fail to see the basic point I have made with great clarity. The point is simply that Jinnah’s being born a shia is neither here nor there. Nor, for that matter, my being born a sunni is of any relevance. These divisions are created by the mullahs who have destroyed the simple Deen that Muhammad (saw) gave mankind. Jinnah and I are brothers in Islam, that is all.

By the way, are you going to give your quotation from the Qur’an? I suggest you re-read my article on Islam, which gives quotations from the Qur’an and makes it clear that Allah does not permit sectarianism. You are commanded to try to understand the Qur’an using all the faculties that Allah has given you and to “remember” Allah as sincerely as it is possible for you to do. That is all. No sunni sects (or any others), no controversies, no bickering, no bloodshed – just ISLAM, peace and surrender to the Will of The Supreme, The Knower of all that exists. If you disagree with any aspect of my article then tell me where you disagree and why. Do not attribute false statements to the Qur’an.

Back to Jinnah. He was a great Muslim as defined in the Qur’an. If any sunni mullahs consider him a ‘kaafir’ then that is nothing new. Jinnah and Iqbal faced much worse in their lifetime. Westernised fascists who dub Jinnah “secular” are no different from the hypocritical mullahs. It is this twin sickness – mullahism and westernised fascism – that is draining Pakistan’s lifeblood.

I just wonder, Omar, if you belong to the latter category.

Why not, my dear sir? Please clarify your statement and provide supporting evidence from the Qur’an.

Our mullahs possess egos of gigantic proportions. We have to be careful when listening to them. It is good policy to weigh their utterings against the criterion of Al-Quran. A useful rule of thumb is: if there is no back-up from the Qur’an then the mullah has an ulterior motive.

Sakib Ahmad :
Why not, my dear sir? Please clarify your statement and provide supporting evidence from the Qur’an.
Our mullahs possess egos of gigantic proportions. We have to be careful when listening to them. It is good policy to weigh their utterings against the criterion of Al-Quran. A useful rule of thumb is: if there is no back-up from the Qur’an then the mullah has an ulterior motive.

Dear Shakib Sahab,

Following Comment are for those “who talk of Islamic Republic of Pakistan” and accept that Pakistan was came into being in the name of Islam. I will not mince my words nor I would take the cover of Moderate Islam [if you talk of Islam and Quran]

Since you “believe” that Pakistan was attained in the name of Islam and if that is so in reality then Islam doesn’t allow any Non-Muslim to be appointed on a Key Position and that too a Foreign Minister.. [Hazrat Omar [RA] had sacked one such governor who appointed a Non-Muslim on a key position – Reference: Tafsir Ibn-e-Kathir and History by Tabari]…. Proof from Quran that Non-Muslim cannot be friends of Muslims [Quadiyanis are Non Muslims] and they cannot be trusted and we cannot be sure that they are sincere. Allaah says

وَالَّذينَ كَفَرُواْ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ إِلاَّ تَفْعَلُوهُ تَكُن فِتْنَةٌ فِي الأَرْضِ وَفَسَادٌ كَبِيرٌ

English Translation:

And those who disbelieve are protectors one of another – If ye do not so, there will be confusion in the land, and great corruption. [ AL-ANFAL (SPOILS OF WAR, BOOTY) Chapter 8 Verse 73]

وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاَةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَيُطِيعُونَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُوْلَـئِكَ سَيَرْحَمُهُمُ اللّهُ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

English Translation

And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and His messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise. [ AL-TAWBA (REPENTANCE, DISPENSATION) Chapter 9 – Verse 71]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَاء مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ

English Translation

There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their folk: Lo! we are guiltless of you and all that ye worship beside Allah. We have done with you. And there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only – save that which Abraham promised his father (when he said): I will ask forgiveness for thee, though I own nothing for thee from Allah – Our Lord! In Thee we put our trust, and unto Thee we turn repentant, and unto Thee is the journeying. [ AL-MUMTAHINA (SHE THAT IS TO BE EXAMINED, EXAMINING HER) Chapter 60 Verse 4]

It would be better if we all do away with double policy i.e. Riding Two Boats [Islam and Democracy] at the same time. Policy should be very clear. This confusion has resulted in Trouble and will created more Trouble if we didn’t separated Religion from the Business of State [Like Jinnah had said on 11 August 1947 Speech]

Dear Sakib
I hope Aamir’s answer satisfies you.

Q & A WITH ME

– It has been an honor to have today a simple and honest, I bet, Pakistani with us. Lets hear him and try to understand the conditions, situations, turmoil, achievements, developments of this unique great nation, now very well popular in the world. Our guest is a simple honest Pakistani but have a deep insight on the current affairs, internal affairs, economics, social and geo-political situations of the country. Lets hear from him what he thinks about his country. I would like to ask how do you think about ….read the full post here:

http://criticalppp.com/archives/6423

Sakib Ahmad :
@Aamir Mughal
Dear Aamir Sahib,
In support of this statement you first mention “Tafsir Ibn-e-Kathir and History by Tabari” and then three quotations from the Qur’an, 8:73, 9:71 and 60:4.
You are obviously unaware of the reality of “Tabari bin Rustam” and the scholarship of Ibn Kathir. I will avoid getting into a long, fruitless discussion about these gentlemen here. I will refer you to Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s website, http://www.ourbeacon.com, where you can learn a great deal. For example, you might like to read “The criminals of Islam” and “The reality of Karbala”.

Dear Shakib Sahab,

I know Dr Shabbir Ahmed and his work very well rather we have been exchanging mails with each other since last 4 years. The tragedy with cut and paste is this that it stops you from independent Research and that’s what just happened above. Not everything Tabari wrote was correct and similarly not everything Tabari wrote was wrong. Mind you there are two Tabaris.

1 – Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir ibn Yazīd aṭ-Ṭabarī أبو جعفر محمد بن جرير بن يزيد الطبري of Tarikh al-Tabari (History of the Prophets and Kings) and Tafsir al-Tabari. [which I quoted]

2 – Muhammad b. Jarir b. Rustam al-Tabari Shia Scholar of Khabar [Hadith]

You would have to read and research a lot to even defend Jinnah through Quran.

Sakib Ahmad :
@Aamir Mughal
Dear Aamir Sahib,

You are obviously unaware of the reality of “Tabari bin Rustam” and the scholarship of Ibn Kathir. I will avoid getting into a long, fruitless discussion about these gentlemen here. I will refer you to Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s website, http://www.ourbeacon.com, where you can learn a great deal. For example, you might like to read “The criminals of Islam” and “The reality of Karbala”.As for the third quotation, where did you get your stern translation from? Here is one from “The Qur’an as It explains Itself” by Dr Shabbir Ahmed:

Dear Shakib Sahab,

Dr Shabbir, MD is a very respected and dear friend of mine and he lives in Miami, Florida – USA where “Secular Democracy – NON-QURANIC” is practiced.

Aliarqam :
“I know a great deal about Quaid-e-Azam. Though he was born into an obscure Shia sect, his greatness lies in the fact that he disowned all sects and declared himself to be just a Muslim who was neither Shia nor Sunni. ”
It was just bcoz he was not a practicing muslim…..

Kindly define what a “practising” Muslim is. A man whose integrity is legendary, whose courage is beyond description, who goes around with a copy of the Qur’an and reflects deeply on what he reads, remembers Allah often, is not a “practising” Muslim!! You must have some odd mullahistic conceptions of Islam.

The only criterion for judging whether or not a person is a good Muslim is the Qur’an. Thus, for example, when Quaid-e-Azam responded to a question about his being a shia or a sunni, the answer he gave was in accordance with the Quraanic injunctions. Our army of mullahs, who head up scores of religious sects, are the ones who are defying Allah’s commandments. I wonder if you are some sort of mullah with an axe to grind!?

I am glad, Aamir Sahib, that you are familiar with Dr Shabbir Ahmed’s books. I hope you will also have read Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwaiz’s books – he is one of the greatest religious thinkers our nation has produced.

So, having put paid to Tabari and Ibn Kathir, I take it we are both in agreement that it is the Quraanic Guidance which must determine whether a particular course of action is permissible or not.

I understand that you disagree with Quaid-e-Azam’s decision to make use of Sir Zafrullah’s talents in the service of Pakistan. While you are certainly entitled to your personal likes and dislikes, you should exercise care not to invoke the Qur’an in support of your prejudices. As I said in my last post, you are simply beating about the bush, coming up with quotations from the Qur’an which have no bearing on the subject we are discussing. You have also ignored numerous injunctions where mankind is told to live by principles of justice and fair play irrespective of a person’s background – religious, social, racial, whatever.

When I ask you not to take Quraanic aayaat out of context, all I mean is that the linkage between one aayat and another should not be ignored. Quite often the essence of a particular command is spread over more than one aayat, which means we must consider all connected aayaat as one whole.

You ask about ‘distinct Muslim culture’. I used this phrase in the context of the Indian society where Hindus and Muslims were living side by side. You must, therefore, understand this phrase in relative terms. May I request that you spare an hour or so of your valuable time to read Mumtaz Mufti’s essay “Ram Deen”. This will open up your eyes to the stark reality of life for Muslims living in a Hindu dominated society.

fii amaan Allah

Dear Aamir Mughal Sahib,

A little humility would become you!

No one, not Iqbal, Parwaiz, Shabbir, or anyone else for that matter (I would leave out the Messengers as the world they inhabit is beyond my comprehension), can comprehend the Qur’an in its entirety. Why? Because the Qur’an deals with the universe as a whole, there is the world we can comprehend with our senses and there is the one which lies beyond our earthly experience (I have touched on this aspect of the Qur’an in my article on Islam which, judging from your comments, you have considered it unnecessary to read). In my entire life you are the only person – other than a mullah – who claims to have understood the Qur’an.

There are two things you need to bear in mind. One: the particular dialect of the Quraish in which Al-Qur’an was revealed some 1500 years ago was different from the Arabic spoken elsewhere, and it bears little resemblance to modern Arabic. Thus, when Arabic scholars take it upon themselves to “translate” the Qur’an, quite often they are simply regurgitating someone else’s translation and ideas about what the Qur’an says. I do have a copy of Pickthall’s translation, which I never finished – let us just say that it is “traditional” and leave it at that.

Two: Al-Quran, being the revelation of the Creator of the Worlds, cannot contain contradictions or anything that defies established scientific facts. Thus, for example, the movements of the planets, the conception and gestation of a baby in the mother’s womb, the evolutionary processes, etc probably made little sense until the discoveries of modern science. Being aware of latest scientific research will also be helpful in strengthening your understanding of the Qur’an. In fact, the Quraanic definition of an ‘aalim’ is closer to that of a scientist. The widely understood meaning of an aalim as someone who has read an awful lot of “religious” books and sets himself up as a “spiritual guide” is not supported by the Qur’an.

By the way, “shaan-e-nazool” is a typical mullah idea, I am surprised to see you hawking it here.

You have obviously not read Parwaiz or you would not use words like “Hadith rejector” for him. He simply repeated what Al-Quran says, namely, that we must not accept anything blindly – if we do, we lower ourselves to the level of cattle. The Knower of all the worlds that exist doesn’t want us to have blind faith in His Book: we must use our minds, all the faculties we possess, to understand His Message before we accept it. Blind faith has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. The same criterion applies to hundreds of thousands of stories attributed to Muhammad Mustafa, Rehmatul-lil-aalameen – many utterly disgusting and pornographic. Allama Parwaiz simply says that we have to use our intellect to judge these stories in the light of the Quraanic Guidance given to us.

Regarding Jinnah, you have failed to prove that Jinnah’s understanding of Islam was faulty. So, what exactly are you objecting to?

Regarding the difference between Deen and culture, let me tell you a story. Many years ago I knew a young Welshman whose name was Glyn. He was attracted to Islam and his conversion ceremony took place in our local mosque. The imam gave him the “Muslim” name Dawood. Thereafter, he was always “Dawood” to people at the mosque. He complained to me that in his own language, Welsh, the word ‘glyn’ meant a brook, a flowing stream winding its way through a valley, and he couldn’t see why he needed to abandon that beautiful name simply because he had accepted Islam as his Deen. I laughed and said he was absolutely right. Needless to say he was ‘Glyn’ to me and ‘Dawood’ to other people at the mosque. You see, Aamir, Islam as Deen is wide as the ocean, it gives you tremendous freedom to live your life within very wide boundaries. However, where those boundaries are going to be threatened, and people’s lives are made miserable, then you have to do something about it. It is a pity you refuse to learn from other people’s knowledge and wisdom. Mumtaz Mfti’s “Ram Deen” would have answered many of your questions. This post has become quite long and I have to stop, I am afraid. By the way, you might also find Mufti’s “Talaash” useful.

The West has given me education, information and cleverness, for which I am grateful. However, such knowledge and wisdom that I possess, has come to me from rummaging in the treasure trove in my own backyard.

fii amaan Allah.

Sakib Ahmad :
Dear Aamir Mughal Sahib,
A little humility would become you!

There are two things you need to bear in mind. One: the particular dialect of the Quraish in which Al-Qur’an was revealed some 1500 years ago was different from the Arabic spoken elsewhere, and it bears little resemblance to modern Arabic. Thus, when Arabic scholars take it upon themselves to “translate” the Qur’an, quite often they are simply regurgitating someone else’s translation and ideas about what the Qur’an says. I do have a copy of Pickthall’s translation, which I never finished – let us just say that it is “traditional” and leave it at that.

Dear Shakib Sahab,

Please don’t repeat this “Theory of Dialect from the Article of Dr Shabbir”.

Sakib Ahmad :
Dear Aamir Mughal Sahib,
A little humility would become you!
The West has given me education, information and cleverness, for which I am grateful. However, such knowledge and wisdom that I possess, has come to me from rummaging in the treasure trove in my own backyard. fii amaan Allah.

Those Muslims [particularly Pakistanis] who talk of Quran and Islam and living in the West under “Infidel Kaafir Secular System which is made by man not Allah” should leave West and should live in “Jinnah’s Paradise” or stop defending Pakistan and Secular Jinnah’s Ideology through Quran.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَفَّاهُمُ الْمَلآئِكَةُ ظَالِمِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَالُواْ فِيمَ كُنتُمْ قَالُواْ كُنَّا مُسْتَضْعَفِينَ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالْوَاْ أَلَمْ تَكُنْ أَرْضُ اللّهِ وَاسِعَةً فَتُهَاجِرُواْ فِيهَا فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَسَاءتْ مَصِيرًا

Lo! as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wrong themselves, (the angels) will ask: In what were ye engaged? They will say: We were oppressed in the land. (The angels) will say: Was not Allah’s earth spacious that ye could have migrated therein? As for such, their habitation will be hell, an evil journey’s end; [AN-NISA (WOMEN) Chapter 4 -Verse 97]

Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” [Sunnan Abu Dawood]

It is obligatory to migrate from the kaafir lands to the Muslim lands for those who are able to do that, if they are unable to practise their religion openly. Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki said: Hijrah (migration) means leaving dar al-harb [non-Muslim lands] and going to dar al-islam [Muslim lands]. This was obligatory at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and remains so after his time for those who fear for their lives. From Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/33, by al-Shawkaani. Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said concerning the hadeeth, “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen”: This is to be understood as referring to those who are not safe to practise their religion there. Fath al-Baari

Dear Aamir Mughal,

From time to time I come across a piece of writing which has the effect of making me feel physically sick. Your string of posts yesterday had that effect on me – it is with some effort that I am responding to your comments. Let me tell you a hypothetical story.

I assume you are a married man with children. Let us say you have a son, three years old, and you say to him: “Son, you play here in this room while I go and lie with your Mum in the next room – shan’t be long, you understand?” The boy says, “yes, fine”, and you enter the other room. After a while the little boy takes a peek into the room and he finds Dad clinging to Mum so he says, yes, I understand, Dad is lying with Mum.

Now then, Aamir Mughal Sahib, the boy says he understands it all but does he have the understanding? It is the same with the Qur’an. It is easy to understand but the “understanding” is not guaranteed. If you wish to acquire understanding you will have to discard your practice of quoting selectively from the Qur’an to support your pre-conceived ideas. You will have to act in accordance with those verses which tell you to think hard over the aayaat of the whole Qur’an. In other words, see things with the eyes of a grown up, not those of a child.

It is a pity you refuse to learn from the knowledge and wisdom of others. The fact is the Qur’an does sub-divide its verses between the Muhkemaat and the Mutashaabehaat verses. Please do read my article on Islam to understand the difference between the two and the reason why the meaning of the Mutashaabehaat may not be clear to you. As for the Muhkemaat, the biggest stumbling block to our understanding is the simple fact that the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic which was in use 1500 years ago. A language – any language, its proverbs, the meaning of words – changes enormously over such a long period. Try reading an English text written 500 years ago or an Urdu text just 300 years old – you will have a hard time making sense of what you are reading. Therefore, not all translations of the Qur’an are equally reliable. You need to read several different versions and arrive at your own conclusions.

The story I have told you above also serves to bring out the difference between a matter of fact statement and a pornographic description. If, for example, the little boy looking into the room were to be replaced by your favourite author Harold Robbins, you would be guaranteed to read a titillating account which would make you drool at the mouth. Is teaching of biology “pornographic” because it specifically mentions the private parts of men and women? Do you now understand the essential difference between the Quraanic descriptions and the vulgar stories attributed to the greatest man who ever walked on earth?

Many repellent stories – “ahadees” – were dreamed up by the muftis of the time to provide a justification for the vile deeds of the reigning khalifah and members of the aristocracy. Child abuse was made acceptable by “discovering” ahadees some 250 years after Allah’s Messenger had passed on, which gave his wife’s age at nikaah as 6! Al-Quran says a marriage is a contract between a Muslim man and a Muslim woman which they enter into freely. Only a mullah’s mind can think of treating a child of 6 as a grown up young lady who understands the nature of the contract she is entering into.

The next bombshell you drop is: “If Shaan-e-Nazool is not important [as per you] then please follow all those Verses which are quoted as Violent Verses of Quran and start hacking the heads infidels”.

This is pure mullahism! There are verses in the Qur’an which tell you how you need to defend yourself in wartime from treacherous enemies. There are separate Quraanic passages which tell you to be kind and fair to all human beings irrespective of who they are provided they are living in peaceful co-existence with you. It is an insult to Allah’s Book to imply that you are ordered to “hack off heads of infidels”. The “shaan-e-nazool” thing is nowhere mentioned in the Qur’an – it is simply the product of our mullahs’ fertile imagination.

According to the Qur’an there is nothing wrong with living in peaceful co-existence with one’s fellow human beings. If you dig up stories which contradict the Qur’an then I shall have to reject them out of hand. In any case, do point out to me where you can see an Islamic society anywhere in the world. Take Pakistan, dominated as it is by the twin evils of mullahism and westernised fascism. It is, as this website keeps reminding us, a land where corruption, lies, deceit, injustice and oppression are widespread, and where we get the leaders we deserve – Zardari, Musharraf, Nawaz Sharif! Tell me what is Islamic about this society? You need to create one before you stand on high moral ground and let off hot air into the atmosphere. The sad fact is that what we have in Pakistan today is the Age of Jahiliyyah masquerading as Islam.

I have shown you how close to the spirit of Islam Quaid-e-Azam was but you continue in your stubborn refusal to acknowledge the truth. I shall not go over ground I have already covered.

You have at least got one thing right when you quote verse (4:97). The oppressed people of Pakistan have indeed migrated to countries all over the world where they have found relative safety and justice from the oppression which lies heavy over Pakistan. It is people in Pakistan who fear for their lives and their religions, not those who have found refuge elsewhere. Are you really unaware of the contradictions in your postings? You will sink deeper and deeper into the bog as you discard Allah’s Guidance in favour of the wild pronouncements of self-important mullahs.

Aamir Mughal, “to you your Deen, and to me mine”. Let this be the end of our discussion. I am not interested in prolonging this meandering “discussion” leading nowhere.

fii amaan Allah.

Sakib Ahmad :
Dear Aamir Mughal,
From time to time I come across a piece of writing which has the effect of making me feel physically sick.

Then for the sake your health don’t read my posts.

I assume you are a married man with children.

Assumption is the mother of all mess up don’t assume too much and your assumption is wrong.

It is a pity you refuse to learn from the knowledge and wisdom of others. The fact is the Qur’an does sub-divide its verses between the Muhkemaat and the Mutashaabehaat verses. Please do read my article on Islam to understand the difference between the two and the reason why the meaning of the Mutashaabehaat may not be clear to you. As for the Muhkemaat, the biggest stumbling block to our understanding

I say it is a pity that you have to read ‘others’ to understand simple message in Quran. Who are these so-called others whose “Knowledge” and “Wisdom” is must to understand Quran. I don’t have to read your article to understand the difference between Muhkemaat [clear revelations] and the Mutashaabehaat [allegorical] verses. To understand both Quran alone is itself enough and if there is some difficulty then authentic and verified Hadith clear the matter.

هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ

He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations – they are the substance of the Book – and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed. [ AL-E-IMRAN (THE FAMILY OF ‘IMRAN, THE HOUSE OF ‘IMRAN) Chapter 3 – Verse 7]

What is so difficult in the above verses for which one has to consult your article???

Many repellent stories – “ahadees” – were dreamed up by the muftis of the time to provide a justification for the vile deeds of the reigning khalifah and members of the aristocracy. .

Please raise genuine objection and don’t repeat the “Lies Concocted by Mawdudi in Khilafat o Malookiyat” and your above objection is quite similar like Mawdudi.

I have shown you how close to the spirit of Islam Quaid-e-Azam .

Spirit of Jinnah???? Where???

You have at least got one thing right when you quote verse (4:97). According to the Qur’an there is nothing wrong with living in peaceful co-existence with one’s fellow human beings.

How would you justify living in the West when your tax money is being used by their Military Establishment to bomb innocent people all over the Muslim World. As per the Verse above which I quoted Muslims should vacate West. Aur Maren Yahan Jinnah Kay “Quraani Pakistan Mein”

Aamir Mughal, “to you your Deen, and to me mine”. Let this be the end of our discussion. I am not interested in prolonging this meandering “discussion” leading nowhere.

Then don’t discuss and by the way a part of Quranic Chapter above from “Al Kafiroon – The Disbelievers” which you have quoted on me is meant for Non-Muslims and not for Muslims and till this post I am a Muslim and so you are.

This is Number ” 6 ” from my view point….
No , this is Number ” 9 ” from my view point…

Aamir Sain
Thanks for the link. But people like Sakib will continue to argue to the contrary.

Thanks, I have just been searching for info approximately this subject for a long time and yours is the greatest I have came upon till now. However, what about the bottom line? Are you sure about the source?