Who is Targetting Shias in Pakistan.

The Former US Diplomat to Pakistan Ryan C Crocker had submitted a detailed Research Paper of US Strategy to Incite Shia-Sunni Strife in Iraq. They are doing the same in Pakistan, read his paper. America backs Shia-Sunni and Ethnic Wars in Pakistan http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/america-backs-shia-sunni-and-ethnic.html

Ali Abbas :
@Aamir I suppose it is the Americans who have made bigotry against the Shias a part of mainstream belief. Yep, that has to be it. Ibn Tammiyah warned muslims about the role of Americans in the fall of Baghdad (no, not 2003, more like a thousand years ago when the Mongols, ooops Americans took Baghdad).
We can continue to look for conspiracy theories or we can make a new beginning and start a serious process of introspection. Laying all our problems at some mysterious cabal of Americans/Jews/Hindus/RAW/CIA/Mossad has gotten us into this mess in the first place!

Read the Document which is loaded with proper bibliography and it was submitted by USA [who supported Khomeini in Iran Contra Scandal] and then say whatever you like. And do read that USA did support Saddam Hussein against Iran with Tacit Saudi Support. If you want to start Shia Sunni Debate then you are more than welcome. Here is First Salvo.

Comparison was quite correct. Hassan Nasrullah is being supported by Cut Throats Ayatullahs of Iran: Behind The Islamic Revolution of Iran – Part I http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/behind-islamic-revolution-of-iran-part.html
These Iranian Mutawwa backed ISO forget that Israel was conduit of USA to supply weapons to Khomeini [A brother of Kharji Mawdudi] : Behind The Islamic Revolution of Iran – Part II http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/behind-islamic-revolution-of-iran-part_14.html

Kudos to the so-called Islamic Revolution whose leader Khomeini enjoyed CIA AND NATO Company in Turkey and France: Behind The Islamic Revolution of Iran – Part III
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/behind-islamic-revolution-of-iran-part_7904.html Isn’t is strange that exile of Khomeini to Iraq [Ruled by Pro Western Baathist] Turkey [Ruled by Pro Western Government] and France [do you need a comment about the Non-Islamic Society of France where the so-called Islamic Revlutionary Khomeini (spiritual brother of Satanic Mullah Mawdoodi of Satanic Jamat-e-Islami]

“QUOTE”

Khomeini spent more than 14 years in exile, mostly in the holy Shia city of Najaf, Iraq. Initially he was sent to Turkey on 4 November 1964 where he stayed in the city of Bursa for less than a year. He was hosted by a colonel in Turkish Military Intelligence named Ali Cetiner in his own residence, who couldn’t find another accommodation alternative for his stay at the time. Later in October 1965 he was allowed to move to Najaf, Iraq, where he stayed until being forced to leave in 1978, after then-Vice President Saddam Hussein forced him out (the two countries would fight a bitter eight year war 1980-1988 only a year after the two reached power in 1979) after which he went to Neauphle-le-Château in France on a tourist visa, apparently not seeking political asylum, where he stayed for four months. Read more in http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/behind-islamic-revolution-of-iran-part_7904.html

Ali Abbas : @Aamir I suppose it is the Americans who have made bigotry against the Shias a part of mainstream belief. Yep, that has to be it. Ibn Tammiyah warned muslims about the role of Americans in the fall of Baghdad (no, not 2003, more like a thousand years ago when the Mongols, ooops Americans took Baghdad). We can continue to look for conspiracy theories or we can make a new beginning and start a serious process of introspection. Laying all our problems at some mysterious cabal of Americans/Jews/Hindus/RAW/CIA/Mossad has gotten us into this mess in the first place!

Dear Ali,

You should come out of Imam Bargah and tell us and enlighten us all as to who supplied Chemical Weapons to Iraq under Saddam Hussein [from 1980 to 1986] for using it against Iran [Iranis are Shias] and Kurds . You are trying to defend USA but they wont give you visa for this. Now if you have come out of Majlis then Watch this [other Shias as well] to open your eyes. These are no Conspiracy Theories but Declassified US Government Document and if you are a US Citizen then you too can go and download these documents.

Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983. REFERENCE: US NATIONAL SECURITY ARCHIVE Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein: The U.S. Tilts toward Iraq, 1980-1984 National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 82 Edited by Joyce Battle February 25, 2003 http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Donald Rumsfeld meets Saddam Hussein 1983
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaP7ZrmkcuU

Do think Rumsfeld went to Iraq for narrating Hadith Kisa or Hadith Saqalain.

Ali Abbas : @Aamir I suppose it is the Americans who have made bigotry against the Shias a part of mainstream belief. Yep, that has to be it. process of introspection.

Why not?

Ministers of Murder: Iran’s New Security Cabinet

In June 2005, Iranians elected Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who had campaigned on a platform of improving economic conditions, as their new president. Ahmadinejad assumed his new post in early August 2005 with the backing of those political factions in Iran who most vigorously opposed political and social reforms initiated by his predecessor, Mohammad Khatami. This support, coupled with positions Ahmadinejad took during the campaign, caused human rights defenders and activists in Iran to view his rise to power with great concern.

Legacy PDF: Download the report http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2005/12/15/ministers-murder-iran-s-new-security-cabinet

Ali Abbas : @Aamir@Aamir process of introspection.

Iran and Ayatullahs of Iran.
http://www.hrw.org/en/search/apachesolr_search/iran

Ali Abbas : @Aamir I suppose it is the Americans who have made bigotry against the Shias a part of mainstream belief. Yep, that has to be it. Ibn Tammiyah warned muslims about the role of Americans in the fall of Baghdad (no, not 2003, more like a thousand years ago when the Mongols, ooops Americans took Baghdad). We can continue to look for conspiracy theories or we can make a new beginning and start a serious process of introspection. Laying all our problems at some mysterious cabal of Americans/Jews/Hindus/RAW/CIA/Mossad has gotten us into this mess in the first place!

Dear Ali,

You must hate Wahhaabis but not with close eyes.

Should I quote US Declassified Documents to support my views that USA is behind every mess all over the place. [Let me make it more clear we on this Forum are not Islamists, Mullahs or whatever coming out of woodwork. Most of us on this Forum want working system in Pakistan in the shape of Democracy and USA didn’t allow that too happen, recent example is naked and brazen support to General Zia 1977 – 1988 and General Musharraf 1999 – 2008 [still USA support him] here is an eye opener on US Tinkering in Iran:
Hillary Clinton, Madeleine Albright and CIA Operation Ajax in Iran
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/hillary-clinton-madeleine-albright-and.html

Latest: Target Iran: Scott Ritter, Seymour M. Hersh & Amy Goodman
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/target-iran-scott-ritter-seymour-m.html

Do watch the video of Former UN Weapon Inspector Scott Ritter above with Seymour Hersh. Iran gets its most wanted terrorist, Abdulmalik Rigi http://criticalppp.com/archives/6290

Jon :

Aamir Mughal : Who is Targetting Shias in Pakistan. The Former US Diplomat to Pakistan Ryan C Crocker had submitted a detailed Research Paper of US Strategy to Incite Shia-Sunni Strife in Iraq. They are doing the same in Pakistan, read his paper. America backs Shia-Sunni and Ethnic Wars in Pakistan http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/america-backs-shia-sunni-and-ethnic.html

I read your blog post. The material does not support your claims. Look at the first sentence that you quoted: “However, the United States, the existing Arab regimes, and the traditional Sunni clerical establishments all share an interest in avoiding instability and revolution.” Can you explain how the US stating that it has an interest in avoiding instability is evidence that it incites sectarian clashes? Well obviously you can’t, because that’s an contradiction. Now you are taking your unsubstantiated claims and trying to apply them to another situation via a tenuous conspiracy theory. Let me spell out your thought process in plain English:
“America worked with Muslim groups in Iraq to fight terrorism. That somehow shows that America does whatever it can to incite sectarian clashes. Therefore, since the Shia doctors getting killed in Karachi is also a result of sectarian clashes, America is behind it.” It makes no sense.

Would you call Rumsfeld visit and video a Conspiracy theory. Who were attacked the most during War on Terror against Iraq in Iraq. Only Shias and their shrines.

How would you define this text from the paper.

the United States, the existing Arab regimes, and the traditional Sunni clerical establishments all share an interest in avoiding instability and revolution.

“QUOTE”

However, the United States, the existing Arab regimes, and the traditional Sunni clerical establishments all share an interest in avoiding instability and revolution. This shared interest makes the establishments in the Sunni world America’s natural partners in the struggle against Al-Qaeda and similar movements. If American strategists fail to understand and exploit the divide between the establishments and the radicals within Sunni Islam, the United States will play into the revolutionaries’ hands, and drive fence-sitting Sunnis into its enemies’ ranks. 2 Outsiders of the Sunni World Sunni Islam is a very big tent, and there have always been clashing philosophies, and insiders and outsiders, within Sunnism.*Throughout the past century, the most important of these clashes have occurred between Sunni reformers and the traditional Sunni clerical establishment.

“UNQUOTE”

Ali Abbas : @Aamir I suppose it is the Americans who have made bigotry against the Shias a part of mainstream belief. Yep, that has to be it. Ibn Tammiyah warned muslims about the role of Americans in the fall of Baghdad

Dear Ali,

You did good by bringing out History since you seem to be very fond of history so let me quote History.

This is for Shias to learn some lessons from History and the next Text is for Sunnis to learn their Lessons and fast.

Between 640 – 655 Hijri Abdullah Bin Mustansir aka Mostasim Billa {Abbassaid Caliph} was the powerless ruler of Baghdad, he was also Faqih and Mohaddis {Sunni Religious Scholar} but extremely superstitious sometimes he was even afraid of ‘cats’ his Prime Minister was Moiduddin Ibn-e-Alqami Rafzi {Extremist Shia} and due to his incompetence there was Sectarian War going on in Baghdad amongst Shias and Sunnis and Hanbalites and other sects of Muslims. Shias were majority in an area called Karkh in West Baghdad and Ibn-e-Alqami used to live there. Day in day out Shia-Sunni used to fight each other in that particular neighborhood. The Caliph Mostasim sent his two sons Abu Bakar and Rukunuddin Dawadar to crush the Shia rebellion and ordered them to loot Shia houses in Karkh, which they did successfully, Mostasim’s haste step angered Ibn-e-Alqami but he preferred patience. Ibn-e-Alqami strategically and very cunningly started sending the army troops from Capital Baghdad to all over the place on the context of confronting the invading Hordes of Mongols. Around 653 Hijri Halaku Khan attacked Iraq besides conquering Isphahan, Hamdan and several Forts of Ismailis including Qila Al Amut of Hassan Bin Sabbah (Ismaili Shia) aka the Assassins or Hasheeshain. On his way to Baghdad Halaku received letters from Ibn-e-Alqami, he was encouraging Halaku Khan to annex Baghdad. Earlier Halaku was reluctant and afraid to annex Baghdad because it being a Centre of so-called Muslim Ummah but was pursued by one Khwaja Naseeruddin Toosi {another Shia} to go ahead and don’t worry about Ummah. Therefore when he reached Baghdad the Prime Minister Ibn-e-Alqami approached Halaku in the Military Camp of Mongols outside Baghdad and requested peace from Halaku for himself and returned back to Caliph Mostasim Billa and said lets go to Halaku as I {Alqami} have granted peace and government of Baghdad for you. Mostasim Billa with his Ministers, Advisers, Clerics and Qazis visited Halaku. Halaku Khan instantly put all of them to sword and very ruthlessly too, later Halaku ordered that the Caliph be covered in a carpet and the be attached to the feet of an elephant so that Mostasim be thoroughly dead and annihilated. Afterwards Ibn-e-Alqami desecrated the dead body of Mostasim saying that he got his revenge and the revenge of the blood of the followers and descendents [Ahlul Bait] of Holy Prophet Mohammad {PBUH}. Halaku and his army for 6 months after that looting, killing, burning, raping and pillaging Baghdad and in total more than 1 Million people were put to sword. That is not the end when Ibn-e-Alqami was getting out of his boots he too was put to death by the Mongol Army. {Tareekh Ibn-e-Khaldun {Volume 3 & 4 Khilafat-e-Banu Abbas/ Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya by Ibn Kathir}

For Sunnis:

Muslim historian Ibne-Aseer in his magnum opus Kamil-Ibne-Aseer [and Ahmed Hafiz in Kitabud Daula Al Khwarzimi Wal-Maghol and Muqraiazi in his Kitabul Saulook-ul-Marifa Daulul Malook have seconded Ibn-e-Aseer] had written a detailed account as to how Genghis Khan and his Mongol Army thoroughly sacked, thrashed, and butchered the so-called Muslim Ummah in 13th Century and that is not the end the mongol army invaded the Muslim Kindom of Samarkand and Bukhara which were overwhelmingly ‘Muslim’ having Muslim King with powerful army and finished the Kingdom of Khwarzam Shah. Genghis Khan was instigated by Khwarzam’s arrogance and his violation of oath which he himself signed with Tartar King Genghis Khan. Khwarzam’s governor had murdered the Mongol traders who used to trade with Central Asian Muslim State as per the Trade Treaty signed by Genghis and Khwarzam. There was another reason as well of Mongol Attacks on Muslim states and that was the ambitions of Khwarzam Shah to be a King of Baghdad as well and be called Commander of the Faithful. On hearing the ambitions of Khwarzam the Baghdad Caliph Sultan Nasiruddinullah started secret correspondence with Genghis Khan and instigated him to attack the state of Allauddin Shah Khwarzam and the rest is history.

These Killings are related with Oil Pipeline with Iran for Pakistan and India. USA want to squeeze Iran and easy and soft target to get Iran is to annihilate Shias in Pakistan for starting a whole new ball game.

Let me spell out your thought process in plain English: “America worked with Muslim groups in Iraq to fight terrorism. That somehow shows that America does whatever it can to incite sectarian clashes. Therefore, since the Shia doctors getting killed in Karachi is also a result of sectarian clashes, America is behind it.” It makes no sense.

How come under Musharraf right under “War on Terror” following is possible:

And while the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi stand officially disbanded, their most militant son and leader, Maulana Azam Tariq, an accused in several cases of sectarian killing, contested elections from jail – albeit as an independent candidate – won his seat, and was released on bail shortly thereafter. Musharraf rewrote election rules to disqualify former Prime Ministers Mohammed Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto, and threatened to toss them in jail if they returned from abroad, which badly undermined both Nawaz Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League and Bhutto’s Pakistan People’s Party (PPP). Musharraf has plainly given the religious groups more free rein in the campaign than he has allowed the two big parties that were his main rivals. In Jhang city, in Punjab province, Maulana Azam Tariq, leader of an outlawed extremist group called Sipah-e-Sahaba, which has been linked to numerous sectarian killings, is being allowed to run as an independent despite election laws that disqualify any candidate who has criminal charges pending, or even those who did not earn a college degree. “It makes no sense that Benazir can’t run in the election,” says one Islamabad-based diplomat, “and this nasty guy can.” References: And this takes me back to Pervez Musharraf’s first visit to the US after his coup. At a meeting with a group of journalists among whom I was present, my dear and much lamented friend Tahir Mirza, then the Dawn correspondent, asked Musharraf why he was not acting against Lashkar-e Tayba and Jaish-e Muhammad. Musharraf went red in the face and shot back, “They are not doing anything in Pakistan. They are doing jihad outside.” Pakistani neocons and UN sanctions Khalid Hasan This entry was posted on Sunday, December 28th, 2008 at 6:00 pm.
REFERENCE: Ronald Reagan, Afghan Mujahideen, Talibans & Royal Mess.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/ronald-reagn-afghan-mujahideen-talibans.html

Aamir Mughal :
Sorry, I missed Rumsfeld’s video where he called for Shia doctors to be killed. Are you claiming Saddam Hussein was Shia and lived in a shrine? Or that the US did not ever attack Saddam Hussein and his forces in Iraq?
What Zarqawi was doing in Iraq. He was Jordanian????

You didn’t answer my questions.

Did the US attack Saddam Hussein in Iraq? How can you say that only Shias and their shrines were attacked?

But anyway, to humor you, why don’t you read this wikipedia page on Zarqawi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi

Here’s the relevant bit: “In September 2005, he declared “all-out war” on Shia in Iraq after the Iraqi government offensive on insurgents in the Sunni town of Tal Afar.[2] He dispatched numerous suicide bombers throughout Iraq to attack American soldiers and areas with large concentrations of Shia militias.”

Jon :

Aamir Mughal :
Sorry, I missed Rumsfeld’s video where he called for Shia doctors to be killed. Are you claiming Saddam Hussein was Shia and lived in a shrine? Or that the US did not ever attack Saddam Hussein and his forces in Iraq?
What Zarqawi was doing in Iraq. He was Jordanian????

You didn’t answer my questions.
Did the US attack Saddam Hussein in Iraq? How can you say that only Shias and their shrines were attacked?
But anyway, to humor you, why don’t you read this wikipedia page on Zarqawi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi
Here’s the relevant bit: “In September 2005, he declared “all-out war” on Shia in Iraq after the Iraqi government offensive on insurgents in the Sunni town of Tal Afar.[2] He dispatched numerous suicide bombers throughout Iraq to attack American soldiers and areas with large concentrations of Shia militias.”

I rely on the sources given in wikipedia and my post is pending in the thread as to why Jordan Released Abu Musab???? Post is pending to be released and you will get the answer.

Aamir Mughal :

Jon :

Aamir Mughal It makes no sense.

Psychological Warfare makes no sense for those who are not trained in these matters, believe me I know what I am saying and if not then read Seymour Hersh, Scott Ritter and Jundullah Affair in above links. Why Jundullah’s Leader was arrested from Pakistan/Afghanistan [do you think that during a US War on Terror when even a minute thing is being monitored Rigi successfully carrying out its activity without being noticed???] You could be naive but I am not. I have seen even more absurd things during my service.

I claimed that your argument’s conclusions made no sense. You replied that psychological warfare makes no sense to the untrained.

Are you saying that your comments here are simply a form of psychological warfare?? That’s funny!

@Jon Sorry, I missed Rumsfeld’s video where he called for Shia doctors to be killed.

Do you remember that right under the nose of Musharraf [War on Terror Regime] , SSP Leaders were allowed to contest Election from Jail in 2002, why? Do you remember the Former SSP Punjab Police Late. Ashraf Marth had almost busted Sectarian Gangs [during the second regime of Nawaz Sharif and the news was headline in every newspaper in 1998/99 ], and he had unearthed Gold Credit Cards of CITI Bank from Sectarian Fundos and within days the SSP was gunned down. Ask why???? Where would you put this text of a Former Police Officer of Pakistan. How would you define it?

@Jon

then you can’t deny that Zarqawi was anti-Shia for his own reasons, not at the request of the US.

I just want to know why he was released in 2001 and went nowhere else but Iraq and start blazing Shias? Why?

Massacre of Shias in Iraq was conducted by Al-Zarqawi! http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=abu_musab_al-zarqawi
2001: Al-Zarqawi Allegedly Arrested and Released in Jordan
Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian Muslim militant later alleged by the Bush administration to have ties to Osama bin Laden, is allegedly arrested in Jordan sometime in 2001 for his involvement in a late 1999 plot to blow up the Radisson SAS Hotel in Amman, Jordan (see November 30, 1999). This is according to an unnamed Bush administration official. Supposedly, some time after his arrest, he is released.

Aamir Mughal :
@Jon
Where did I say that Saddam Hussein was Shia, however his Cabinet contained many Shias and Christians as well.

You didn’t. You claimed that only Shias and their shrines have been attacked in Iraq under the War on Terror. That’s obviously wrong, because Saddam Hussein was attacked quite a bit. That’s all I was saying.

Aamir Mughal :
@Jon
then you can’t deny that Zarqawi was anti-Shia for his own reasons, not at the request of the US.
I just want to know why he was released in 2001 and went nowhere else but Iraq and start blazing Shias? Why?
Massacre of Shias in Iraq was conducted by Al-Zarqawi! http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=abu_musab_al-zarqawi
2001: Al-Zarqawi Allegedly Arrested and Released in Jordan
Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian Muslim militant later alleged by the Bush administration to have ties to Osama bin Laden, is allegedly arrested in Jordan sometime in 2001 for his involvement in a late 1999 plot to blow up the Radisson SAS Hotel in Amman, Jordan (see November 30, 1999). This is according to an unnamed Bush administration official. Supposedly, some time after his arrest, he is released.

I tried to respond but it didn’t let me. Maybe a duplicate will show up later. Perhaps some of the links I used were blocks.

All I’ll say then is that Jordan is anti-Shia. They need no incitement from the US to do anti-Shia things. Just do a google search for “jordan shia” and you’ll see all kind of evidence.

@Jon

That’s obviously wrong, because Saddam Hussein was attacked quite a bit. That’s all I was saying.

To some extent you are correct: John Pace, who left Baghdad two weeks ago, told The Independent on Sunday that up to three-quarters of the corpses stacked in the city’s mortuary show evidence of gunshot wounds to the head or injuries caused by drill-bits or burning cigarettes. Much of the killing, he said, was carried out by Shia Muslim groups under the control of the Ministry of the Interior. Iraq’s death squads: On the brink of civil war Most of the corpses in Baghdad’s mortuary show signs of torture and execution. And the Interior Ministry is being blamed. By Andrew Buncombe and Patrick Cockburn Sunday, 26 February 2006 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqs-death-squads-on-the-brink-of-civil-war-467784.html

Ali Abbas : @Aamir, I wish your sarcasm was built on common sense; I know it is easier to post several links and long articles than to make some rational arguements. Anyways, your rather personal attacks prove my point far more effectively and for that, thank you!

Where your above “Biased Opinion” goes when I say same thing about Deobandis [Read Sunnis] and Wahhaabis?

Ali Abbas : @Aamir, My point is very simple and I don’t need a one-sided and Ibn Tammiyah concocted version of history to prove that mainstream muslim belief is full of hatred for the Shia, which once again you so sucessfully portray in your never-ending posts.

I have quoted Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Athir, Kitabud Daula Al Khwarzimi Wal-Maghol by Ahmed Hafiz and Kitabul Saulook-ul-Marifa Daulul Malook by Muqraiazi.

Where did I quote Minhajul Sunnah by Ibn Tammiyah written in reply of Tabbarrah compiled by Allama Hilli in Minhajal Karamah. Where did I quote Al Awasim Minal Qawasim by Qazi Abu Bakar Ibn Al Arabi [not to be confused with Ibn Arabi the Sufi] or Tohfa Ithna Ashari by Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith Dehelvi.

You are raising false allegation.

Ali Abbas : @Aamir, I suppose when you come out of your hadith-hurling madrassa and try and base arguements on rational dialogue, we might get somewhere

I didn’t attack Shia Faith in my above post and if you are starting this religious Manazara by directly attacking the Hadith of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] instead of attacking Mullah and Madressah only then don’t complain when I quote Shia books full of Tabbarrah on everybody. Be warned

Ali Abbas :
@Aamir, So please keep your trite and rather blase history lessons to yourself and stick to the topic at hand. @Aamir, Just answer one thing, plain and simple. Do you really think, like the ISO and various Shia wahabi Islamist groups, that America is somehow responsible for the killings of Shias in Pakistan today?

How USA is responsible? Would you like to define as to how under Musharraf the Deobandi Militants successfully carried out Operation after USA attacked Afghanistan, read: [read the parts where Musharraf military regime right under the american eyes openly supported deobandi and wahhaabi militants]”LIES”of General [R] Pervez Musharraf, Sharifs & Talibans.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/liesof-general-r-pervez-musharraf.html

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal In Pakistan, all the State-sponsored militias who are killing minority sects (Brehlvis, Ahmadis and Shias)

Do you even know that Barelvis have also Issued Fatwa of Kufr against Shias. Go and first read then come and lecture.

Ali Abbas :
@Aamir Mughal
It would be a far more fruitful dicussion if you were not so insecure.

I am not at all insecure. Bring in what you have got.

@Aamir, your view of history is still one sided and the Shia view on this event is rather different as is the case for most of the historical accounts. Nonethless, if one were to use common sense to evaluate your view, then the Mongols were a force of history who didn’t need the persecution of Shias in Abbasiad Iraq and the resultant sectarian dynamics to help them to invade Baghdad. You are aware that they conquered most of the known and interconnected world of those times, right. You are also aware that it was not the Shias who helped them conquer the rest of the world then; it was just superior military might, will and strategy. Rather than relying on the polemical accounts that view the Shias as fifth columnists who caused the decline of muslims (how convinient and how emblematic of a lazy and degenerate mindset), it would be a good idea to study history and realize that all those who continuously blamed the other for the problems always ended up in the dust bin of history! Today in Pakistan, the Ahmadis who probably represent one of the most educated segments of society are being butchered by the Jihadi militias. Entire generations of Pakistanis are being fed a false and concocted bull shit account about Ahmadi beliefs and how they are against Pakistan (actually, the Ahmadis were at the forefront in supporting Jinnah). What Tabarra did they do? Were they responsible for the fall of Andalusia?
So spare me the same tired, pathetic gibberish narratives that try and seek symmetry between those who are murdering and oppressing and those who are the victims of such oppressions. It has not gotten us anywhere and will never get solve the current situation.

Ali Abbas : @Aamir, Rather than relying on the polemical accounts that view the Shias as fifth columnists who caused the decline of muslims (how convinient and how emblematic of a lazy and degenerate mindset), it would be a good idea to study history

Dear Ali,

I have Tabari, Ibn Khaldun, Wafiyatul Ayan, Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya, Usudul Ghaba, Fathool Al Baldan, Sawaiq Al Moharriqqa and countless others in my personal collection so don’t lecture me.

Aamir, you do realize that everytime you produce another medieval text or some sectarian bs that attacks the Shias, you prove my point that the current situation, i.e., the killing of Shias by Jihadi militias is not the outcome of a US conspiracy but the tragic result of re-igniting bigotry that is mired in a medieval mindset. I hope that you also realize that your pathetic attempts to boast about your vast reading has not made you a more tolerant individual, just confused. To the extant that you contradict yourself in the same comment thread.

@Aamir Mughal
There again, you prove my point. That bigotry in Pakistan is not a US conspiracy but our own mess. Abbas Kumaili’s bigotted statement against the Ahmadis should be condemned on the basis of universal human rights; something that we are not likely to arrive at by pompously posting links of irrelevant medieval texts. Generalizing me with Kumaili shows your inherent prejudice that all Shias are uniform in their thinking. Ever head of foot-in-mouth syndrome…..

Ali Abbas : Aamir, you do realize that everytime you produce another medieval text or some sectarian bs that attacks the Shias, you prove my point that the current situation, i.e., the killing of Shias by Jihadi militias is not the outcome of a US conspiracy but the tragic result of re-igniting bigotry that is mired in a medieval mindset. I hope that you also realize that your pathetic attempts to boast about your vast reading has not made you a more tolerant individual, just confused. To the extant that you contradict yourself in the same comment thread.

Some medieval sources [including Shia Sources] also say this:

Now read and I am sure the post will uplift your spirituality.

Shia and Sunni Sources on Hasnain’s May Allah be pleased with them] acceptance of Muawiyah [May Allah be pleased with him]’s Khilafa: [Ref: Akhbar Al Tawal Al Denwary page 234, Tabari Page 62 Volume 6, Al Imama Wal Siyasa page 173, Maqtal Abi Mikhnaf page 4 published in Najaf]

Hazrat Muawiya [May Allah be pleased with him]’s Excellent Treatment with Hasan and Hussain [May Allah be pleased with both of them]: Hussain used to go with Hasan to meet Muawiyah in Damascus and at one stance Muawiyah gifted 2 Million Dirham to both and at anothe ocassion he gifted Hazrat Hasan 4 Million Dirham [Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya by Ibn Kathir Page 150 and Page 127 Volume 8] This narration is confirmed by Ibn Abi Al Hadid (Mutazilli Shia) in his translation of Nehjul Balagha page 823 Volume 2] and this further confirmed by Extremist Shias like Abu Mikhnaf in his book Maqtal Abi Mikhnaf page 7].

Hazrat Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] had indeed named his sons after Sheikhain i.e. Hazrat Abu Bakar, Hazrat Omar and Hazrat Usman [May Allah be pleased with all of them]. As per Authentic Shia Sources Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] did have biological daugthers [May Allah be pleased with them] besides Hazrat Fatimah [May Allah be pleased with her] and these daugthers were married later to Hazrat Usman [May Allah be pleased with him]. Not only that Authentic Shia Sources also accept that Hazrat Ali’s Daughter Syeda Kulsoom [May Allah have mercy on his soul] was married to Hazrat Omar [May Allah be pleased with him]. Read the details below:

1 – Hazrat Ali’s Family.

2 – Hazrat Ali Relationship with Hazrat Omar.

3 – Hazrat Usman’s Relation with Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and Hazrat Ali [Shia Sources]

4 – Aal-e-Ali’s relationship with Bannu Ummayya and Aal Marwan [After the Tragedy of Karbala]

Now Read…….. ……..

Wives and Children of Hazrat Ali [May Allah be pleased with him:

1 – Hazrat Fatimah Bint Mohammad [May Allah be pleased with her]:

Hassan, Hussain, Zainab ul Kubra and Umme Kulthum [she became wife of Hazrat Omar (May Allah be pleased with him and all those who were mentioned earlier).

2 – Umm-ul-Bunian Bint Haram Bin Kalabia [she was related with Shimar Bin Zil Joshan (the alleged Criminal of Karabala){Ref: Jumhartul Ansab by Ibn Hazm}] who was the daughter of Hazam b. Khalid. Hadrat Ali had five sons from her, namely: Abdullah, Jafar, Abbas, Othman, and Umar. All of them were martyred in the battle of Karbala along with Hadhrat Hussain [May Allah be pleased with him].

3 – Laila Bin Masood Bint Khalid Nehshaliya Tameema who was the daughter of Masud. She was the mother of two sons, namely Ubaidullah and Abu Bakr. Both of them were martyred in Karbala.

4 – Asma who was the daughter of Umais. She was in the first instance married to Hadrat Jafar, an elder brother of Hadrat Ali. On the death of Hadrat Jafar, Hadrat Abu Bakr married her. After the death of Hadrat Abu Bakr she married Hadrat Ali. She had to sons from Hadrat Ali, namely: Yahya and Muhammad Al Asghar who martyred in Karbala.

5 – Umama [her mother Zainab was the daughter of Prophet Mohammad – PBUH]d/o of Abi Al Aa’s. Her son from Hadrat Ali bore the name of Muhammad Awsat.

6 – Khaula Bint Jafariya was the daughter of Jafar Hanfiyah. She was the mother of the son known as Muhammad b. Hanfiyah aka Mohammad Al Akbar.

7 – Sehba Bint Rabia Taghlibiya who was the daughter of Rabiah. She gave birth to a son Umar, in the daughter Ruqiya.

8 – Umm Saeed Bint Urwa Bin Masood Thaqeefa who was a daughter of Urwa. She bore Hadrat Ali three daughters, namely: Umm-ul-Hasan, Ramlatul Kubra and Rumia.

9 – Mukhbita Bint Amral Qais Bin Adi Al Kalbiya Muhyat was a daughter of the famous Arab poet Imra-ul-Qais. She gave birth to a daughter who expired in infancy.
Hadrat Ali married nine wives in all including Hadrat Fatima. The number of wives at a time however did not exceed four. He had a few slave girls of whom Humia and Umm Shuaib bore him 12 daughters, Nafisa, Zainab, Ruqiya, Umm-ul-Karaam, Humaira, Umm Salma, Sughra, Khadija, Umm Hani, Umm Kulthum Jamana and Maimuna. Hadrat Ali was, in all, the father of 15 sons and 18 daughters. [total = 33 children]
Those who were martyred at Karbala are as under:

Hazrat Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] son’s:

Jafar, Abdullah and Usman [sons of Ummul Banin Bin Hazam], Mohammad [son of Ummul Wald], Abu Bakar [son of Laila Bin Masood Armiya], Abbas.

Sons of Hazrat Hussain Ibn Ali [May Allah be pleased with him]:

Ali [Laila Bint Marra bin Arwa Thaqafi (Saqaf: tribe of Shia Hero Mukhtar and Sunni Nasibi Hajjaj Bin Yousuf), Abdullah (son of Rubab Bin Umral Qais Kalbi)

Sons of Hazrat Hasan bin Ali [May Allah be pleased with him]:

Abu Bakar and Qasim.

Sons of Abdullah Bin Jafar Bin Abi Talib:

Aun and Mohammad.

Aqeel Bin Abi Talib:

Jafar, Abdul Rahman, and Abdullah

Sources: [Al Milal Wan Nahal by Ibn Hazm, Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm, History by Ibn-e-Khaldun and Ansab Aal-e-Abi Talib]

Hazrat Hussain Ibn Ali [May Allah be pleased with him]’s real cousin and Brother In Law Hazrat Abdullah bin Jafar Tayyar Bin Abi Talib [May Allah have mercy on his soul]’s second daughter Syeda Umme Mohammad [May Allah have mercy on her soul] was the wife of Hazrat Ameer Yazeed Bin Muawiyah [May Allah have mercy on his soul]

Source: {Kitab Nasbul Quraish and Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]

1 – Syeda Umme Kulsoom bint Ali Bin Abi Talib [May Allah have mercy on her soul] was the wife of Hazrat Omar [May Allah be pleased with him]
Sources: {Khulaini reports through Muawiyah Bin Ammar, Abu Jafer Tusi in Tehzeeb Al Ahkam, Tusi reports through Hazrat Baqar, Al Kafi has whole chapter on this marriage “Bab Fi Tarweej Umme Kulsoom”, Faroogh Kafi, Ibnen Shehr Ashob Mazandarani, Zainuddin Amili, Manaqib-e-Aal- e-Abi Talib}

Relationship of Hazrat Ali Ibn Talib [May Allah be pleased with him] with Banu Ummayya [Ummayyads] and that relationship through marriages after the Incidents of Siffin and Karbala.

1- Three daughters of Hazrat Ali Ibn Talib [May Allah be pleased with him] were married to Muawiyah bin Marwan, Abdulmalik Bin Marwan, and Amir Kuraiz Ummavi respectively. [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm and Al Bidaya Wal Nihaya by Ibn Kathir]

2- Hazrat Ali [May Allah be pleased with him]’s son Hazrat Hasan [May Allah be pleased with him]’s grand-daughters married in Banu Ummayya:

3 – Syeda Nafeesa Bint Zaid Bin Hassan w/o Alwalid Bin Abdul Malik Bin Marwan [Shia Source Umdatul Talib Fi Ansab Aal Abi Talib published in India]

4- Zainab Bint Hassan Masanna w/o Alwalid Bin Abdul Malik Bin Marwan [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]

5 – Umme Qasim Bint Hassan Masanna w/o Marwan bin Aban [Grandson of Hazrat Usman (May Allah be pleased with him)] and after he died she married to Ali Bin Hussain aka Zainul Abideen [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]
6 – Hammada Bint Hassan Massanna w/o Ismail Bin Abdul Malik Bin Abdul Haris Bin Al Hakam [nephew of Marwan Bin Al Hakam (May Allah be pleased with him)] [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]

7- Khadija Bint Hussain Bin Hassan Bin Ali w/o Ismail Bin Abdul Malik Bin Abdul Haris Bin Al Hakam (that was before the marriage of Hammada with him) [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]

8- Most of the daughters [Non Fatimid] of Hazrat Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] married in Banu Jafar, Banu Aqeel, Banu Abbas and Banu Marwan [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm]

9 – Syeda Sakina d/o Hazrat Hussain Ibn Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] after the death of Muasab Bin Zubair, married Marwan Bin Al Hakam’s grandson Al Asbagh Bin Abdul Aziz Bin Marwan, his econd wife was Umme Yazeed d/o Yazid Bin Muawiyah [Jumharatul Ansab by Ibn Hazm, Al Muarif Ibn Qutaiba, Kitab Nasbul Quraish]

10 – Rabia bint Syeda Sakin Bint Hazrat Hussain Ibn Ali [May Allah be pleased with him] w/o Abbas Bin Al Walid Bin Abdul Malik Bin Marwan [Kitab Nasb Quraish]
Hazrat Uthman Ibn Affan [May Allah be pleased with him] by being son-in-law of Mohammad [PBUH] was also amongst The Ahl Al-Bayt.

As per Shia Books:

A Rafizi Abul Qasim Ali Bin Ahmed Bin Musa [Death: 352 Hijri] in his book Al Istighasa Fi Bidah-es-Salasa had denied that Ruqqaya [May Allah be pleased with her], Umme Kulthum [May Allah be pleased with her], and Zainab [May Allah be pleased with her] were also the daugthers of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] besides Hazrat Fatimah [May Allah be pleased with her] from Hazrat Khadija [May Allah be pleased with her] whereas Ruqqayya, Zainab and Umme Kulthum were the daughters of Mohammad [PBUH] from Khadija and all three were borne before the Prophethood [Bu’saat]. Abul Qasim above meant to say that these three daughters were borne to Khadija from her earlier husband. Abul Qasim’s claims are rejected by books like Nasb Al Quraish, Kashf Al Ghamma Fi Maarifatul Aimma, Umdatut Talib Fi Ansab Aal Abi Talib.

The claim of the above Rafizi was thoroughly rejected by a noted Shia Scholar Abdullah Mamqani in his book Tanqeeh ul Maqal Fi Ahwal Ir Rijal and declared that Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had four daughters [May Allah be pleased with all of them]. Rafizi Abul Qasim was declared apostate by several noted Shia Scholars like Sheikh Abbas Al Qumi in his Tatamma Al Muntaha, and by another Shia Scholar Allama Aaqa Meer in his Naqd ur Rijal and by another Giant Shia Scholar Mohammad Bin Yaquob Al Kulaini in his Usool ul Kafi’s Chapter Bab-e-Tareekh also accepted that Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] has four daughters from Khadija [May All be pleased with her].

Following Shia Books accpeted that Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] had four daughters from Khadjia [[May All be pleased with her].

1- Kitaabul Khisal by Sheikh Sadooq.

2- Tazkaratul Masoomeen.

3- Tuhfatul Awam.

4- Manaqib Ibn-e-Sheher Ashoob.

5- Hayatul Quloob.

6- Jilaul Uyoon.

7- Tehzeeb Al Ahkam.

8- Al Istabsar Mara’atul Uqool.

9- Firoo Kafi.

10- Saafi Sharah Kafi.

11- Kashful Ghama.

12- Qarbul Asnad.

13- Majalisul Momineen.

14- Ailaam ul Wari.

15- Anwaar-e-Naimania.

16- Rijal-e-Kashi.

17- Amali Sheikh Toosi.

“UNQUOTE”

Is Usool-e-Kafi a Wahaabi book or a book of Momineen and thoroughly checked by Imam Mahdi in Ghaibat and said to Kulaini that This book is sufficient for Shias.

If his name’s meanings are so bad then why Abdullah Bin Jafer Tayyar – May Allah be pleased with him [Cousin of Hazrat Hussein Ibn Ali, Bibi Zainab’s Husband and Yazeed’s Father in Law, Abdullah bin Jafer’s daughter Umme Mohammad was Yazeed’s wife] had named his son on Hazrat Muawiya i.e. Muwaiyah Bin Abdullah Bin Jafer Tayyar. A son of Aqeel Ibn Abi Talib [May Allah be pleased with him] was named Yazeed. Abdullah Bin Jafer’s grandson’s name was Yazeed. [Shia References – Tanqeeh Al Maqal, Muntahi Al Maqal – these Shia books carry names of those narrators who were named Muwiyah [41 persons], and Yazeed [124 persons]. If Muwaiyah was such a bad name then why Ahl Al Bayt give their daughters in Banu Ummayya for marriage.

Shia Scholars had written the books mentioned above:

1 – Tanqih al-Maqal by Allamah al-Mamaqani.

2 – Muntaha al-Maqal by Muhammad Bin Ismail Al Ha’iri.

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal There again, you prove my point. That bigotry in Pakistan is not a US conspiracy but our own mess.

Wrong again. Even Hillary Clinton accept that USA didn’t treat Pakistan very well: US Vice President Joe Biden & ‘Non Functioning’ Democarcy in Pakistan – 1
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-vice-president-joe-biden-non.html

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal There again, you prove my point. That bigotry in Pakistan is not a US conspiracy but our own mess. Abbas Kumaili’s bigotted statement

Wrong Again. read about the Tilt of a Momin during Fall of Dhaka and do read as to how a Momin was being supported by the USA when the Momin was butchering Innocent Bengalis in 1971: US National Security Archive: Handwritten note from President Richard M. Nixon on an April 28, 1971, National Security Council decision paper: “To all hands. Don’t squeeze Yahya at this time – RMN” REFERENCE: The Tilt: The U.S. and the South Asian Crisis of 1971 National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 79 Edited by Sajit Gandhi December 16, 2002 http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal Aamir, first you show your prejudice by equating me with some Shia mullah and when I highlight your contradictions, your stupidity and your utter lack of common sense, then you ask me to solve society’s mess.

Where did I ask you to solve society mess. Don’t bother.

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal Anyways, I am sick and tired of your evasiveness and inability to address the central question: Is it the inherent bigotry in our society that is causing the deaths of Ahmadis and Shias and others or is it a US conspiracy. Just give me a plain common sense answer if you can……

Yes it is because of USA. It was USA who was supporting Zia who inserted Zakat Ordinance to fix Shias. It was USA who was supporting Zia when tampered with the Constitution to hound Ahmedis: Read it was published as a Headline and discussed during SC Proceedings:

ISLAMABAD: Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry remarked that it was a criminal negligence to bring changes in the documents like Objectives Resolution as former president General (retd) Zia ul Haq tampered with the Constitution in 1985 however, the sitting parliament had done a good job by undoing this tampering. At one point Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry observed that the word ‘freely’ was omitted from the Objectives Resolution in 1985 by a dictator, which was an act of criminal negligence, but the then parliament surprisingly didn’t take notice of it. He said the Constitution is a sacred document and no person can tamper with it. The chief justice said credit must go to the present parliament, which after 25 years took notice of the brazen act of removing the word relating to the minorities’ rights, and restored the word ‘freely’ in the Objectives Resolution, which had always been part of the Constitution. The chief justice further said that the court is protecting the fundamental rights of the minorities and the government after the Gojra incident has provided full protection to the minorities. “We are bound to protect their rights as a nation but there are some individual who create trouble.” CJ lauds parliament for undoing changes in Objectives Resolution Wednesday, June 09, 2010 Says minorities’ rights have to be protected; Hamid says parliament should have no role in judges’ appointment By Sohail Khan http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=29367

ISLAMABAD: Heading a 17-member larger bench of the Supreme Court on Tuesday, Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry termed as criminal negligence the deletion of a word about the rights of minorities from the Objectives Resolution during the regime of General Ziaul Haq in 1985. Ziaul Haq had omitted the word “freely” from the Objectives Resolution, which was made substantive part of the 1973 Constitution under the Revival of Constitutional Order No. 14. The clause of Objectives Resolution before deletion of the word ‘freely’ read, “Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to ‘freely’ profess and practice their religions and develop their culture.” CJP raps change in Objectives Resolution * Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry says deletion of clause on rights of minorities was ‘criminal negligence’ * Appreciates incumbent parliament for taking notice of removal of clause by Gen Zia’s govt in 1985 By Masood Rehman Wednesday, June 09, 2010 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=201069\story_9-6-2010_pg1_1

ISLAMABAD: Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry on Tuesday praised the parliament for undoing a wrong done by the legislature in 1985 (through a constitutional amendment) when it removed the word ‘freely’ from a clause of the Objectives Resolution that upheld the minorities’ right to practise their religion. The word “freely” was deleted from the Objectives Resolution when parliament passed the 8th Amendment after indemnifying all orders introduced through the President’s Order No 14 of 1985 and actions, including the July 1977 military takeover by Gen Zia-ul-Haq and extending discretion of dissolving the National Assembly, by invoking Article 58(2)b of the Constitution. After the passage of the 18th Amendment, the Objectives Resolution now reads: “Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their culture.” The CJ said: “Credit goes to the sitting parliament that they reinserted the word back to the Objectives Resolution.” He said that nobody realised the blunder right from 1985 till the 18th Amendment was passed, even though the Objectives Resolution was a preamble to the Constitution even at the time when RCO (Revival of Constitution Order) was promulgated. CJ lauds parliament for correcting historic wrong By Nasir Iqbal Wednesday, 09 Jun, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/ziaera-deletion-from-objectives-resolution-criticised-cj-lauds-parliament-for-correcting-historic-wrong-960

Aamir Mughal :

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal Anyways, I am sick and tired of your evasiveness and inability to address the central question: Is it the inherent bigotry in our society that is causing the deaths of Ahmadis and Shias and others or is it a US conspiracy. Just give me a plain common sense answer if you can……

Yes it is because of USA. It was USA who was supporting Zia who inserted Zakat Ordinance to fix Shias. It was USA who was supporting Zia when tampered with the Constitution to hound Ahmedis: Read it was published as a Headline and discussed during SC Proceedings:
ISLAMABAD: Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry remarked that it was a criminal negligence to bring changes in the documents like Objectives Resolution as former president General (retd) Zia ul Haq tampered with the Constitution in 1985 however, the sitting parliament had done a good job by undoing this tampering. At one point Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry observed that the word ‘freely’ was omitted from the Objectives Resolution in 1985 by a dictator, which was an act of criminal negligence, but the then parliament surprisingly didn’t take notice of it. He said the Constitution is a sacred document and no person can tamper with it. The chief justice said credit must go to the present parliament, which after 25 years took notice of the brazen act of removing the word relating to the minorities’ rights, and restored the word ‘freely’ in the Objectives Resolution, which had always been part of the Constitution. The chief justice further said that the court is protecting the fundamental rights of the minorities and the government after the Gojra incident has provided full protection to the minorities. “We are bound to protect their rights as a nation but there are some individual who create trouble.” CJ lauds parliament for undoing changes in Objectives Resolution Wednesday, June 09, 2010 Says minorities’ rights have to be protected; Hamid says parliament should have no role in judges’ appointment By Sohail Khan http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=29367
ISLAMABAD: Heading a 17-member larger bench of the Supreme Court on Tuesday, Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry termed as criminal negligence the deletion of a word about the rights of minorities from the Objectives Resolution during the regime of General Ziaul Haq in 1985. Ziaul Haq had omitted the word “freely” from the Objectives Resolution, which was made substantive part of the 1973 Constitution under the Revival of Constitutional Order No. 14. The clause of Objectives Resolution before deletion of the word ‘freely’ read, “Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to ‘freely’ profess and practice their religions and develop their culture.” CJP raps change in Objectives Resolution * Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry says deletion of clause on rights of minorities was ‘criminal negligence’ * Appreciates incumbent parliament for taking notice of removal of clause by Gen Zia’s govt in 1985 By Masood Rehman Wednesday, June 09, 2010 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=201069\story_9-6-2010_pg1_1
ISLAMABAD: Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry on Tuesday praised the parliament for undoing a wrong done by the legislature in 1985 (through a constitutional amendment) when it removed the word ‘freely’ from a clause of the Objectives Resolution that upheld the minorities’ right to practise their religion. The word “freely” was deleted from the Objectives Resolution when parliament passed the 8th Amendment after indemnifying all orders introduced through the President’s Order No 14 of 1985 and actions, including the July 1977 military takeover by Gen Zia-ul-Haq and extending discretion of dissolving the National Assembly, by invoking Article 58(2)b of the Constitution. After the passage of the 18th Amendment, the Objectives Resolution now reads: “Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities freely to profess and practise their religions and develop their culture.” The CJ said: “Credit goes to the sitting parliament that they reinserted the word back to the Objectives Resolution.” He said that nobody realised the blunder right from 1985 till the 18th Amendment was passed, even though the Objectives Resolution was a preamble to the Constitution even at the time when RCO (Revival of Constitution Order) was promulgated. CJ lauds parliament for correcting historic wrong By Nasir Iqbal Wednesday, 09 Jun, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/ziaera-deletion-from-objectives-resolution-criticised-cj-lauds-parliament-for-correcting-historic-wrong-960

How USA is involved in Sectarianism in Pakistan? Documents of White House is at the start and do read the welcome Zia received at the White House and do watch Zbigniew Brzezinski [National Security Advisor to Jimmy Carter] address to Jihadists: Your cause is right!

Toasts of President Reagan and President Mobammad Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan at the State Dinner December 7, 1982 – In the last few years, in particular, your country has come to the forefront of the struggle to construct a framework for peace in your region, an undertaking which includes your strenuous efforts to bring peaceful resolution to the crisis in Afghanistan—a resolution which will enable the millions of refugees currently seeking shelter in Pakistan to go home in peace and honor. Further, you’ve worked to ensure that progress continues toward improving the relationship between Pakistan and India. And in all these efforts the United States has supported your objectives and will applaud your success. And, Mr. President, unfortunately, a new and menacing turbulence has arisen in our region. More than a fifth of the entire population of Afghanistan has been compelled to seek shelter in Pakistan as a result of the armed intervention in that country by a foreign power. We are bending our effort to resolve this tragic situation through a peaceful political settlement, in accordance with the principles enunciated by the international community. The latest manifestation of this was the Resolution of Afghanistan adopted by the United Nations General Assembly, once again with the overwhelming support of the member states. Spread this America, Mr. President, to areas other than the United States of America. Let America be the torchbearer of peace, peace not only on the American continent but peace in Afghanistan, peace in Vietnam, peace in Somalia, and above all, peace in Palestine. We wish you, sir, all the best in your endeavors. And you will never find Pakistanis faltering. We’ll be there right behind you to give you the helping hand, if we can, at the moment that you wish us to do so. REFERENCE: Toasts of President Reagan and President Mobammad Zia-ul-Haq of Pakistan at the State Dinner December 7, 1982 Ronald Reagan, Afghan Mujahideen, Talibans & Royal Mess.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/03/ronald-reagn-afghan-mujahideen-talibans.html

Ali Abbas :
@Aamir Mughal I suppose you ran out of links . Is it the inherent bigotry in our society that is causing the deaths of Ahmadis and Shias and others or is it a US conspiracy.

Not at all there more links for all night long. Read how USA is responsible in Bigotry in Pakistan: Back to school in Afghanistan by Heather Abbott & Catherine McIsaac
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/back-to-school-in-afghanistan-by.html

But the Mujahideen had a lot of help to create this warrior culture in the school system from the United States, which paid for the Mujahideen propaganda in the textbooks. It was all part of American Cold War policy in the 1980s, helping the Mujahideen defeat the Soviet army on Afghan soil. The University of Nebraska was front and center in that effort. The university did the publishing and had an Afghan study center and a director who was ready to help defeat the “Red Menace.”

In 1986, under President Ronald Reagan, the U.S. put a rush order on its proxy war in Afghanistan. The CIA gave Mujahideen an overwhelming arsenal of guns and missiles. But a lesser-known fact is that the U.S. also gave the Mujahideen hundreds of millions of dollars in non-lethal aid; $43 million just for the school textbooks. The U.S. Agency for International Development, AID, coordinated its work with the CIA, which ran the weapons program.

“We were providing education behind the enemy lines,” says Goutier. “We were providing military support against the enemy lines. So this was a kind of coordinated effort indeed.

“I eventually was involved in some of the discussions, negotiations for removing the Soviets from Afghanistan. I was an American specialist in these discussions and many people in those discussions said just as important as (the) introduction of stinger missiles was the introduction of the humanitarian assistance because the Soviets never believed the U.S. would go to that extent.”

“The U.S. government told the AID to let the Afghan war chiefs decide the school curriculum and the content of the textbooks,” says CBC’S Carol Off. “What discussions did you have with the Mujahideen leaders? Was it any effort to say maybe this isn’t the best for an eight-year-old’s mind?”

“No, because we were told that that was not for negotiations and that the content was to be that which they decided,” says Goutier.

There were those who opposed the text book project, such as Sima Samar who ran a school in those days, but opposition did little good.

“I was opposing but we had no choice,” says Samar, who served as minister of women’s affairs for the interim government that ran Afghanistan after the Taliban were driven out. “It was already done and… nobody had the freedom to speak against all those things.”

“I was interested in being of any type of assistance that I could to help the Afghans get out of their mess and to be frank also anything that would help the United States in order to advance its interests,” says Goutier.

American interests were well served. But after the defeat of the Soviet empire, the U.S. abandoned Afghanistan. The country descended into civil war. The U.S. gave almost no money to help rebuild after the war against the Soviets and no money to rewrite the school textbooks.

Ali Abbas : Aamir wrote: “Yes it is because of USA. It was USA who was supporting Zia who inserted Zakat Ordinance to fix Shias. It was USA who was supporting Zia when tampered with the Constitution to hound Ahmedis”
Finally, something resembling your own arguements instead of another link or book reference. Took some time to get there.

Don’t try to be 1 1/2 Hoshiyar. I was saying that since long ago. If you would have get rid of using your “too much Vitamin I” then you may have felt it.

Ali Abbas :
a byproduct of some US policies maybe. However, to place the entire onus on the US and describe the killings as a US conspiracy gets us no where towards a solution.

Is this you called byproduct? REFERENCE: Contractors Tied to Effort to Track and Kill Militants By DEXTER FILKINS and MARK MAZZETTI Published: March 14, 2010 A version of this article appeared in print on March 15, 2010, on page A1 of the New York edition. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world/asia/15contractors.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world/asia/15contractors.html?pagewanted=2
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world/asia/15contractors.html?pagewanted=3

Ali Abbas : @Aamir Mughal it was simply continuing the oppression of East Pakistan that started with Jinnah’s imposition (btw, he was also a Shia)

How did you that closely Guarded Secret. I know that already and it is also part of my blog, read [use less Vitamin “I” and avoid know “all syndrome”]: Secular Republic or Islamic Republic of Pakistan http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/10/secular-republic-or-islamic-republic-of.html

Surgical Strikes
By Saher Baloch 31 JULY 2010 4 COMMENTS
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Old fears resurfaced in the doctors’ community when a doctor was gunned down on May 10 this year in Karachi’s SITE area. It brought back chilling memories of the 74 Shia doctors who were murdered in cold blood between the early ’90s and 2002. And their fears were not unfounded. Four more doctors were subsequently targeted.

The first target, Dr Syed Haider Abbas, 54, was on his way home from Metroline Hospital when two men on a motorbike shot and killed him on the spot. But this was no ‘street crime gone wrong.’ The motive behind this one lay in the decade-old problem of sectarian hatred. A father of two, Dr Haider Abbas was working as an E.N.T. specialist at Metroline Hospital, in the Metroville area of Karachi. He had moved back to Karachi in May 2008 after living abroad for 10 years. Inspector Azeem Zaman of the Site-A Police Station, where the FIR was filed, maintains that an investigation is underway and “to call it a sectarian killing would be tantamount to drawing a hasty conclusion.”

However, the victim’s family is convinced that Haider Abbas’s murder is sectarian in nature. Abbas’s sister-in-law, Batool Raza, says that if it were a robbery or a mobile-snatching case, the victim’s belongings would have been missing. “My brother-in-law’s wallet and mobile phone were intact and both items were handed over to his family by police officials at the site. He was killed on the spot without any altercation with the killers. At least that’s what the police told my family,” she says.

According to Batool, the sole reason why Dr Abbas left, back in 1997, was the wave of sectarianism in the country. Dr Abbas was repeatedly denied jobs in various hospitals on the grounds that his name would create “security problems for the administration” as several doctors belonging to the Shia sect were being gunned down outside their clinics and hospitals. Dr Abbas was not known to be politically or religiously affiliated with any group. According to Batool, “He was quiet and polite, and usually kept a low profile.” But when has character deterred sectarian terrorists from targeting innocent Shias?

Dr Abbas’s murder was followed by the target killing of four other doctors in June, bringing the total to five in the last two months. The trend became clearer as two of them – Dr Junaid Hussain and Dr Hassan Raza Bokhari – were killed in Karachi within a span of 36 hours at the beginning of the month. Dr Hussain was shot dead in New Karachi as he was leaving work at night to go home, and Dr Bokhari, 32, was killed in the wee hours of the morning outside the National Medical Centre as he was leaving for home after completing his night duty. As the wave of targeted killing continued, another doctor, Zahid Hussain, was killed near his own private clinic in Landhi on June 17.

Terming the killings sectarian in nature, Dr Habib Soomro, secretary general of the Pakistan Medical Association (PMA), said that, once again, doctors were being targeted because they are “easy targets” and can be located in their clinics and hospitals.

“These killings indicate that some elements are trying to terrorise doctors,” says Dr Samrina Hashmi, former general secretary of the PMA. Targeting prominent people creates “terror, anarchy and lawlessness – and that is what such elements want,” says Dr Hashmi.

From the early ’90s to 2000, 67 doctors were killed by sectarian terrorists who ran amok on the streets of Karachi. Among them were some Sunni doctors, who, by virtue of their names, were mistaken for Shias. The following year saw an incremental rise in the killings, with seven doctors being killed in one year. Shia doctors were advised to change their clinic timings and their routes to places of work. Some even moved around with bodyguards and hordes of them left Pakistan and settled abroad. What is worse is that these are not sporadic killings; it is an organised crime perpetuated by structured groups.

Incidentally, Professor Adibul Hassan Rizvi, the pioneering spirit behind one of Karachi’s finest medical institutes, the Sindh Institute of Urology and Transplantation (SIUT), is also said to be on the sectarian hit list. He was offered police protection by the government, which he politely declined.

According to a Newsline report in 2001, informed sources allege that either Sipah-e-Sahaba or its militant wing Lashkar-e-Jhangvi are involved in many of the sectarian killings. The report quoted a now assassinated MMA leader as saying that intelligence agencies and some members of the police force were propping up these violent groups. Even Dr Soomro of the PMA accuses the banned Islamist group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ) of being behind the killings of many Shias between 1997 – 2003 and says there is the possibility of their involvement in the present surge of killings. “Who knows? They may be on the prowl again,” says Dr Soomro.

Dr Tipu Sultan, principal of Bahria University, seconds Dr Soomro’s view that LeJ was, indeed, behind the murders. “Targeting doctors, especially general practitioners, is very easy,” says Dr Tipu, “as they are like sitting ducks and can easily be located in their clinics and outside hospitals. But to kill scores of doctors from a particular community means that there is an organised group behind it. We were informed in 2002 that the accused in every case had been from LeJ, but we have yet to be informed about what happened after those arrests.”

Government apathy aside, did the doctors’ community step in to save the lives of the Shia doctors?

“The doctors were not united in their efforts, when Shia doctors were being murdered on a daily basis,” says Dr Soomro. The mass killings would have raised a furore among doctors anywhere else in the world “but here, they didn’t. Consequently, many Shia doctors opted to quietly leave the country to save their lives.”

When asked if the PMA has approached the government recently to ensure that Shia doctors are protected, Dr Soomro says that the PMA is not powerful enough to dictate terms to the state. But “in the past, when such incidents were taking place on a daily basis, we asked the government to issue arms licenses to the doctors and some 23 doctors submitted their NIC cards to get the licenses, but nothing happened.” Protest rallies were also staged in order pressurise the government to trace the criminals. Dr Soomro says that the Sindh Governor in Pervez Musharraf’s regime, Mohammed Mian Soomro, was also in contact with them. “FIRs were registered, reports were compiled and commissions were set up to investigate the murders, but nothing concrete came out of it. The cases are still pending in the courts and the murderers are roaming free.”

A former Citizens-Police Liaison Committee (CPLC) chief, Sharfuddin Memon, says that the involvement of “Taliban-like forces” working to create mayhem in Karachi cannot be ruled out. “And even if these forces are made defunct, they form splinter groups that then continue with their mission.” Apart from that, Memon says that the police department’s investigation and forensic units lack the necessary equipment, which makes it difficult to follow up on the cases. “However, the weakest end of the investigation is the prosecution, which fails to collect and provide the relevant evidence,” says Memon. “Consequently most of the criminals are exonerated, which emboldens them to continue in the same vein.”

The Sindh Home Department has now set up a Doctors Protection Cell, which is headed by Senior Superintendent of Police, Khurram Waris. But unless the police is provided the requisite facilities, and the judiciary the necessary evidence to proceed with the cases, the perpetrators of these heinous hate crimes will continue to stalk and strike more Shia doctors and deprive this country of some of its finest medical brains.

http://www.newslinemagazine.com/2010/07/surgical-strikes/

Creo que otros propretarios de sitios deben de considerar este sitio como un modelo esta muy limpio y tiene un magnifico estilo y diseno, y cuenta con el contenido. Eres un esperto en esta area!

Aw, this was a really nice post. In concept I would like to put in writing like this additionally – taking time and actual effort to make a very good article… but what can I say… I procrastinate alot and under no circumstances appear to get one thing done.

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